[Hammer]

I just bought another P320 last week. That makes five different P320s I've owned over the last 5 years, with thousands of rounds through them. None of them have ever gone off on their own. Not once.

It’s the holster? You must be kidding.

If you find that to be so far-fetched, I have a bridge for sale I'd like you to take a look at.

 

[vafish]

I disagree. Nine police officers witnessed this incident, and as the article Magic Prepper shared points out, the department is shopping for a new gun. They wouldn't be asking for money to replace all their service weapons if they thought it was holstered wrong.

Ask yourself, with all the Glocks and M&Ps in circulation, why are we always seeing this happen to P320's?

Oh yes departments would most definetly ask for more money to replace their service weapons to cover up an officers mistake. Hell the FBI went through the whole 10MM, 40 S+W and back to 9MM over a couple decades because their agents screwed up on stake out for a couple bank robbers and they blamed the whole problem on the 9MM bullet.

 

[artyman]

Legitimate question that I don't think has been asked or answered. DoD has purchased over 300,000 pistols. Why haven't we seen similar reports come out of the different departments?

 

[CRT2]

Legitimate question that I don't think has been asked or answered. DoD has purchased over 300,000 pistols. Why haven't we seen similar reports come out of the different departments?

Part of the answer is the M17 and M18 have manual safeties.

 

[AZP3XXShooter]

I‘ve owned 7 P320 variants (none w/ thumb safeties) and have at least 60,000 rounds through them while carrying in various holsters during EDC, tactical training, multi gun matches, USPSA matches, etc. and have never had a ND like this.I would like to see the actual holster that was used. I think agencies should maybe issue 320’s with thumb safeties. Separate issue but I do think that the Sig disconnector tolerances are ’sloppy’ and leading to the out of battery detonations we are seeing. I am currently running the Sig armorer ‘sport disconnector’ in 2 of my 320’s and have noticed that the striker will not drop out of battery like on the OE disconnector.

 

[New Jersey]

Have you ever been to the range and seen someone’s P320 go off uncommanded? Know someone who knows someone who has it happen. Had it happen personally? No. Me either. Despite all the numbskull things we see at the range that’s never one of them. And let’s face it, if someone’s P320 goes off uncommanded you’re going to hear about it on a forum - maybe not this one - but you’re going to hear about it because it would be like getting verifiable proof of Bigfoot. For transparency sake, I have two P320s and two fully functioning legs.

 

[New Jersey]

I agree. I have a P320 and love it. I’ve had no issues.

 

[tencvol]

My P320C has manual safety. All my striker fired pistols have manual safeties. Extra precaution is worth it to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[aerobat]

Why aren’t these “defective” guns going off by themselves in safes or on nightstands?

Like mentioned i guess the 320 never fires truly itself technically speaking - so discharges without any physical contact by anything to the trigger. You chamber ist , put it in a safe and it will not discharge in 100 years .

But it becomes obvious the physical design of the frame and the trigger , in combination with the pull weight and trigger travel needed to fire makes it sensitive to trigger interference in every day carry situations .

In my definition a safe carry gun is a gun which fires ONLY when i INTENTIONALLY want it to fire .

Imho its not much comfort to debate after shooting somebody unintentionally from the holster after leaning your body forward if this was a true self discharge ( firing pin dropped without any trigger action ) or if the physical design exposes the trigger enough to rub and activate it even when the gun is holstered.

 

[Toolmaker]

Perhaps we should bring back the clamshell holster for pistols with lights?

I have a friend that has carried a Glock in a Serpa holster for decades. Never had an issue with unintended discharges. Some of it comes down to training.

 

[2009nvy]

The greater difference between 20 years ago and now is the internet and social media.

Doesn't Glock have the same concern?

 

[TXGRunner]

[snip]

Wow! That is some of the worst, hack "journalism" I've seen in a long time. Regardless of one's view on the safety of the P320 or striker-fired pistols, the creators of this piece should win the Joseph Goebbels Propaganda of the Decade Award.

First, they spent weeks or months putting together a hit piece, then only give Sig a day or so to respond to the allegations.

Second, the Sig response is played out of sequence at the top, so there is no context to Sig's refutations, ensuring those statements are forgotten.

Third, the b-roll clips are intentional: the Sig HQ is under a dark, cloudy sky with the flag at half-staff to set the mood of mourning and the final scene zooming in on the little boy with his head next to the gun.

Fourth, most of the appeal is emotional. The female officer almost seems to be suffering from PTSD, the Army vet describes his life as torn apart, the Navy vet is traumatized, and the Tamp PD officer wakes up in cold sweats thinking his great-grandson might have been killed.

I am sure all those folks are genuinely pained and I take them at their word. I am not questioning them, but rather the attempt by WAPO to appeal to emotion in lieu of facts. They did list some facts, number of incidents, but never explored the on point counter arguments by Sig. Did WAPO evaluate the incidents involving Glocks? Did WAPO investigate the incidents in firearms with manual safeties?

Of course not. That would mess with their narrative. Instead, we're left with the mental image of a gun discharging into the neck of a cute little innocent 5 year old which causes a shiver to run down the spine of any human.

This is not journalism. This is not an attempt at an objective presentation of the facts. This is advocacy based on emotion. This is propaganda.

We have the media typical of a Banana Republic.

 

[Mulhoney]

Why is the P320 the target? What caused that particular model to become the one to blame? The P320 is nowhere near as familiar with the general population as a Glock for example.

What percentage of Glocks are used by police departments vs Sig P320s? For that matter, how many Glocks are carried daily vs P320s by CCW permit holders in general?

It doesn't make sense that a particular model of Sig would be targeted in some conspiracy theory.

Does it make sense that only holsters of P320s cause accidental discharges?

And...Keep in mind that if that holster is a Safariland 6365, It's listed as available for over 25 Sigs, @20 Berettas and hundreds more brands and models...No, It does not make sense.

 

[New Jersey]

I agree. I have a P320 and love it. I’ve had no issues.

I have no safety. I keep a loaded magazine in the gun but never one in the chamber. If I need it it takes me a second to rack the slide. I consider that my safety.

 

[Notebuyer]

So two of the officers pass their guns to the desk officer while processing. This ain't rocket surgery-it's known correctional technique. Poor training=poor performance.

You're confusing corrections with law enforcement. This was an ARREST of an unsearched and non-incarcerated suspect. There was no "processing" at the time of the incident. No police officer is going to voluntarily disarm and go into an unknown situation.

I'll give you a real life example. At my former agency, we would have to disarm when entering the county mental health unit to process a mentally unstable person, just as we did at the county jail. One day, we received a call for service at the MH facility regarding a patient who was out of control and armed with a sharpened mattress spring. Upon arrival, we were asked to disarm prior to entry. We refused. They insisted. We said, "Ok, have a nice day" and prepared to leave. They relented. We solved their issue.

My point is that, again, no officer will voluntarily disarm going into a situation that may require the use of deadly force... which can be any situation we are called to "handle". Even in the lobby of the Police Department.

 

[TXGRunner]

[snip]
Even in the lobby of the Police Department.

I am not an LEO, never was, don't play one on TV. In fact, I've never in my life been in a police station (that's over 5 decades).

Honest question: Do police stations have weapons lockers so LEOs could put their weapons in a safe place when in an office setting with lots of "unknown types" sitting around and behind them, or while handling prisoners or going into holding cages (or whatever they are called)? I am not referring to this situation, just in general.

I am not sure where I picked up the notion, probably cop shows going all the way back to watching Adam 12 as a kid.

 

[Easy Rhino]

We have the media typical of a Banana Republic.

That's an insult to Banana Republics.

America used to be a place where you were wise to not believe everything you read.

Today, you can't really believe anything you read.

 

[CRT2]

Doesn't Glock have the same concern?
[/aQUOTE]
Ask this same question about SIG in another 20 or 30 years and the answer will be self evident - they have had time and didn’t have the immediate gratification crowd to deal with.

 

[Tln]

I hate to say it but where there is smoke there is fire .. at least the 365 isn’t seeing these issues

im Curious I have a couple 320s but no 365 are the fcu’s the same only the 365 smaller or are there other differences

 

[Magic Prepper]

Would you p320 fanboys please quit making excuses? There are way too many incidents for this to be bs.

Why would people be targeting a specific model of Sig? It needs to be looked into and dealt with. There is obviously something amiss with this pistol.

In my opinion, the drop safety issue opened the door to further accusations of safety issues that are easily believed by those with less knowledge of the subject. Courts included. By prefacing anything related to the P320's safety with "they fired on their own when dropped", it can lead a more convincing argument that they are inherently unsafe.

That being said, I carry a M18 currently and although I don't feel that the P320 is in fact unsafe, I do believe that it may be less forgiving to environmental variables compared to some of it's competitors. And the manual safety would likely overcome most of the issues we are seeing today.

I will admit, as much of fan of the P320 platform as I am, this lingering issue creates a "second thoughts" issue for me that I don't necessarily feel I should have to have. Litigation and legal protection aside, Sig Sauer could probably solve this issue relatively easily but they can't publicly do anything while dealing with a lawsuit. Even if a mechanical change was required or at the least, could resolve any safety doubts, they're basically incapable of doing so until after these lawsuits are dealt with or they'd be admitting fault to a degree. The whole thing is really just unfortunate and, as I stated, began with the drop safety issue followed by the military requesting replacements of their initial batches requiring the multiple parts to be adjusted, the negligent discharge issue we are currently discussing and the quality control issues happening with their other lines of firearms as well such as the MCX-Spear LT barrel flex issue or the MCX-SPEAR magazine over insertion problem.

I am all about innovation and looking towards the next step in self defense which is why I support what Sig is doing. But this all adds up to be a lot sometimes haha.