I will tell you that I don't use an optic on any of my pistols at this time because I pocket carry and like to stay with the same iron sight habit across all of my handguns. With that being said, I can offer you some ideas based on my adoption of optics on some of my rifles.

To start with, removing your iron sights is unnecessary and would yield little value. If your happen to have some modicum of a co-witness, you can just ignore the irons inside the optic window and focus on your dot.

Having handled a couple of pistols with optics, the biggest thing I noticed is that acquiring that dot is not instinctive for me, which seems to be common for people who don't regularly use optics. I would recommend that you train acquiring that dot before you ever go to the range. Going from a low ready to presentation until you can immediately put the dot between your eye and the intended target when you raise the weapon would get you to the point that you are ready for the range with it.

Once you've achieved proficiency with that technique, it'll be time to go put rounds downrange. At the range, train as you would have when you just had irons. If your irons are co-witnessed as your post indicates, then practice using them through the optic window with the sight switched off as a sight malfunction drill.

That's about where I would go if I got my first optic.

 

First, don’t remove your iron sights.

A few hours with an experienced coach/instructor will greatly benefit you.

Occluded optic training is a technique that I have had great success with, when teaching folks who are new to optics. It forces one to be target focused and prevents them from looking for/at their iron sights. That in combination with becoming consistent with your presentation - bring gun to eye level, don’t move head/eyes to gun.

Below is one video that covers occluded optic training:

 

Here's a thread some members built on the topic that should be helpful. It's got a bunch of videos and magazine & web articles:

https://www.sigtalk.com/threads/rdo-rds-pmo-rmr-dot-optics-how-to-zero-how-to-use.372832/#replies

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I found picking up the dot as soon as the pistol is presented was the hardest thing to learn. The only advice I have is practice practice practice presenting your pistol and finding the dot. Then go to the range and bury yourself in brass. You’ll pickup on using the red dot pretty quick. Good luck! Have fun.

 

How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

Practice, practice, practice.

Another vote to practice presenting the gun from the holster or from the low ready until you can't stand it any longer. Then do it again for as many days & as frequently as you have time for until you build the muscle memory so the dot is instantly on target every time. If you do 50 reps & you miss the dot a single time, you're not there yet. 100 reps in a row without a single miss & you're getting there. The presentation needs a routine of maintenance, so don't finally "get it" but then think you'll have it forever. Practice 50 reps a session monthly with the gun unloaded to keep the skill up in addition to your live fire.

 

The other thing to do is learn to shoot with both eyes open. One on the dot and the other on the target. Watch your impacts and adjust accordingly. Once you get this down, its very easy to stay on target. I wouldn't touch your sights, but learn to ignore them when using the dot. I find it easier to bring the dot down into my field of view rather than bringing the dot up. Practice either way and you will be proficient in no time. I'd do 3 round bursts and watch your impacts. Adjust the dot in small increments, 1/4 turn max and repeat with 3 more rounds till you are consistently on target. It usually takes very little to get a dot on target. Once the dot is zeroed, it should stay there unless you remove it for some reason.
Once you get proficient with the dot, it's a game changer. It will however take work and lots of practice, but it's well worth it.

 

This is an area where gun fitment can also really help. I recently picked up a P365 Fuse and put a dot on it. On the draw the dot was always low, and switching to the large backstrap solved that issue. So, some experimenting with different grip modules to find one that naturally makes the dot appear may be worthwhile.

 

Dry fire is your friend. Focus on the target, both eyes open, present the weapon moving the optic into your line of sight, the circle will help to find the dot. You don't need to pull the trigger just focus on the target.
I have a larger optic like Holosun 507 Comp to make target/dot easy, and would recommend that for new dot chasers.
Have fun!

 

Leave the irons on. The most common problem I've noticed for someone new to red dots is actually finding the dot, where as a first step I tell them to put the front sight in the center of the window and pull it straight down until the dot appears at the top. After some practice it becomes second nature to just line things up right, but it takes some time. FWIW, this is one of the few justifications that I can agree with for those who insist on being able to co-witness and optic with the irons.

Other thing is training yourself to focus on the target and the dot projected on it when you pull the trigger instead of the front sight. The dot will be in focus at any distance, so I found myself shifting the focus distance to the frame around the window and had to retrain myself for the new situation.

 

I found this video series to be very helpful when I started shooting with a red dot. I think there’s 3-4 videos from the range session in total. Its almost like getting the lesson plan from Sig Academy.

One technique that is not covered in the video series but has already been mentioned is occluding the optic. Dry fire presentation to first shot is also immensely helpful.

 

I found this video series to be very helpful when I started shooting with a red dot. I think there’s 3-4 videos from the range session in total. Its almost like getting the lesson plan from Sig Academy.

One technique that is not covered in the video series but has already been mentioned is occluding the optic. Dry fire presentation to first shot is also immensely helpful.

Yes! This video training series helped me to understand that the goal during draw and presentation is to superimpose the dot in the center of the window. That's the advantage of the dot is speed. But the biggest thing I learned in this series is the dot can be anywhere in the window. It doesn't have to be in the center. It can be in the upper/lower left/right portion of the glass. Whatever that dot is covering on the target when you pull the trigger is what you are going to hit

 

dry fire, dry fire dry fire. Hand position, foot position, grip, body position, all need to be examined. Personally find the fighters stance easiest with a dot. You are going to learn how to point and shoot, but the cool thing is there will be a dot there to make sure you are on target. Both eyes open, present the gun from ready, (I like compressed ready or low ready), eyes on the targe, when the gun comes up you should see the dot if all those things mentioned first are correct. It is probably a LOT easier to learn if you are not good or have not leaned irons. I am a beginner who stated with irons, eyes suck so added optic, now shoot accurately enough to be happy and have fun shotting with both right and left handed.

 

Welcome from Tennessee and God bless you!

 

Any gun I carry with a red dot has BUIS "Back Up Iron Sights" For me that means to completely ignore the Irons when drawing and shooting. I stay target focused. Not Dot Focused. This took lots of practice with my Draw and Presentation. With enough practice your dot just appears on the target and looks like a laser pointer on an overhead projector. If your dot battery is dead when you present your gun, you should already be on target. and you have BUIS in case you need to take a longer more accurate shot. I don't like tall sights that take up too much space in the window. I like them as low as possible. The best video I've seen explaining this is this one:

 

I always believed red dot optics were slower and less reliable than iron sights until I got trained to use them properly, by a professional instructor. Phoenix posted a great video on occluded dots, that really brings to light the true advantages of red dots. I don't think there is any need to remove your iron sights unless they are blocking your view of the optic window.

One thing to note, is that you need to shoot with both eyes open. I think the best advice I can give you is to watch the video Phoenix posted, then pay a pro to teach you how to effectively use the red dot. It's well worth the money.

Best of luck to you!

 

I do the fundamentals: front sight focus, then I "bring the rear sight up" and the dot will be there. NOTE: My dots co-witness my irons.

I also recommend dry fire or even just presentation practice to make "finding the dot" muscle memory.

I use dots on all my pistols because my eyes are not as good as they used to be and trying to line up irons and target with progressive lenses is hard. I now shoot with both eyes open and just put the dot on the target. Now that I have the dot thing sorted, they work well on any pistol from my P365 to my Taurus Raging Hunter in 454 Casul.

 

An internet gun forum is never a substitute for solid training. Find a good instructor/academy and take a pistol optics class. There are plenty around, some good, sone great, some shitty. If you’re in reasonable proximity to SIG, the academy is a good start. S&W has also restarted their academy in TN and the cadre seems solid.

 

Ya I live in AL and might checkout the S&W academy in TN, never knew they were there. I just wish the SIG academy was not so far

 

Asking any question(s) about a subject like DOT optics is like asking what is the best engine oil to use in your car. It will draw all sorts of differing responses. A long time ago when I bought one of the first true compact red dot optics for a pistol, many that I shot with poo-pooed the idea and said I was nuts and that DOT optics only should be used on long guns. Well time has proven otherwise and I have DOT optics on all but one of my handguns now and they are a fantastic addition. I have never experienced a malfunction with any of my optics or for that matter a dead battery. I probably have at a minimum 12 or 14 DOT optics on different firearms. A few are Holosuns and the majority are Trijicon RMR's and SRO's. They all get new batteries on the 1st day of every year even though it isn't needed, with the expected battery life of the optics. My feeling is better safe than sorry. I am a retired LEO and like to be as prepared as I can be. I only use enclosed optics on my EDC pistols.

I have been to a few local training programs and I am fortunate that my youngest son is in the same profession I was in and he too is a well experienced firearms instructor who I introduced to DOT optics a long time ago. At first I was a true believer in co-witnessing the optic and my iron sights, but that is not the case anymore. I came upon some information that reported much greater shooting success with new DOT optic shooters that had no iron sights on their pistols, only the DOT optic. It was reported that having iron sights and an optical DOT confused the shooters in stressful situations. In essence they became confused over which "sight" they wanted to look at in timed shooting events. So a test of sorts was completed whereby the students were issued pistols with only a DOT optic and no iron sights. Their shooting speeds and scores increased quite a bit. They didn't have any iron or open sights in their aiming "window" which many seemed to like.

So not quite convinced that this was a wise move, I took one of my Glock 34's and removed the taller sights from it and installed shorter sights that I could just barely see in the "window", but the sights did not interfere with the DOT at all. The sights were too low to interfere. I shot the daylights out of that pistol and discovered I really liked having the iron sights out of my way for the most part. And let's be honest here, in many shooting situations iron sights aren't used even if they are present, unless longer distances are involved. In a fast moving close quarters shooting event point shooting is more likely to be used and not the iron sights. If one can train themselves to impose the DOT on their target and not "negotiate" with their iron sights and their target, they stand a much better chance of good hit probability.

I believe the day is fast coming when open or iron sights won't be a standard item on most pistols. They will come right from the factory with a DOT optic already installed. Some already are coming that way. Oh there may still be some die-hards that will want iron sights, but those will slowly fade away. Some will argue this and say "What if your optic fails?" Well I can still point shoot if my life depends on it, but just replacing the battery can keep you out of trouble most often and some optics have a battery life well over 25,000 hours now. That's closing in on almost 3 years. Some optics even have recharge ability today.

As far as being a new DOT optic shooter is concerned, I concur that only practice will get you used to a new optic. And remember it takes 500 reps to commit something to muscle memory. If you can practice dry firing with your new optic everyday you will be surprised at the results. Good luck.

Rick H

 

I approach this from a math/physics POV. I have a P320 pellet gun with a red dot, which I have zeroed, or something like that. Assume, for sake of argument, that both the bullet's path and the virtual line described by the red dot are straight for the distance at which you are operating. The red dot sits above the barrel by some distance, about 3/4", for argument's sake again, your results may vary. The point to zeroing a red dot, at a specific distance, is for those two lines to intersect at that specific distance. Before that distance, and beyond that distance, there will be error, deviation. Then again, with iron sights, if your aim is perfect, you will be sighting slightly above your intended target at any distance. Pick your poison. Caveat, I'm new to this game, I've been shooting less than two years but, I pay attention to what I'm doing, even if I'm ignorant. I factor that into everything. But, my math concepts are correct.

 

Remember the biggest change. The different focal point. You don't look at the dot, you look at the target. With irons you look at the front sight. If you're staring at the dot it'll be harder than if you look at the target then put the dot on it

 

Funny, I've been mounting red dots on some pistols I've used in the past for range work only because I felt iron sights were better and more reliable for actual defensive purposes. Then I recently received professional instruction on using the optics correctly, and now my target acquisition is so much faster focusing on the target.

Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?

 

As others have already pointed out, no need to remove iron sights. You want them as back up.

When I went to a RDS I found it took time to get accustomed to. My experience was that I was not presenting the pistol (a) high enough and b) level to have the red dot "magically" appear. Once I made the requisite corrections things began to fall into place. Even so, repeated practice was necessary to feell comfortable and confident with the RDS.

 

The interesting thing is that, for me, the consistent presentation required for using a dot also made me quicker at acquiring my iron sight picture.

 

Many great advice offerings.
Personally I bought myself some cheap target stands and IPSIC targets and I dry fire 15-20 minutes a day, sometimes 30, in my basement, so I can draw and put dot on target and transition to targets.
I take a sharpie and line the credit card and A zone, so that I am doing the aim small miss small idea.
This way I am doing what I can daily.
Its paid off dividends with my trips to the range, where now that 500 rounds a month has dropped to 250 as its far more quality now than quantity training, if the only range that would allow me to draw and shoot and move and shoot wasn't over an hour away from me then I'd likely burn 1000 rounds a month but I make due with what I can until I can buy my own small tract of land and make it my own range.