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Bullets can leave contrails?

3K views 42 replies 28 participants last post by  TearlessTom  
#1 ·
Saw in an interview a witness claimed he saw contrails from bullets fired at Trump. He said this not that rare for hot, humid days in PA.

I’ve only shot in deserts (Sonoran in AZ and High Desert in OR, which is similar to Great Basin). Meaning, I only know about low humidity, clear air, and high temps in summer. I’ve seen flashing glints from jacketed bullets when sun angle is correct and bullets’ paths are 90 perpendicular to me.

So my question to you in Northeast, Midwest, and Southeast, have you ever seen a bullet leave a contrail, however short the contrail may have been? Thanks.
 
#7 ·
Saw in an interview a witness claimed he saw contrails from bullets fired at Trump. He said this not that rare for hot, humid days in PA.

I’ve only shot in deserts (Sonoran in AZ and High Desert in OR, which is similar to Great Basin). Meaning, I only know about low humidity, clear air, and high temps in summer. I’ve seen flashing glints from jacketed bullets when sun angle is correct and bullets’ paths are 90 perpendicular to me.

So my question to you in Northeast, Midwest, and Southeast, have you ever seen a bullet leave a contrail, however short the contrail may have been? Thanks.

In a word yes. It's a function of humidity and assorted other factors.
 
#9 · (Edited)
I live in FL….. hot, humid Florida. Under the right conditions of temperatures, humidity and drew point, it is not unusual to see faint “contrails“ at longer ranges. Most times you miss them because you’re not looking for them and they are but a glimpse in time.
And, a big slow bullet, like a 45-70 moving at 1250-1300 fps is almost certain to leave a “contrail”.
 
#12 ·
What was seen in the photo of the Trump bullet was likely blur, not contrail. Basically, the same concept as long-exposure photography. The bullet passed that distance while the shutter was open for a frame. Thirty frames per second is fast, but 2000 fps is faster.

 
#14 ·
When I was teaching long range precision rifle, we would see the "trace" on most shots and sometimes it was the main indicator of impact point.

The visual observation is the distortion of the background caused by looking through the compressed air on the nose of the bullet, which can be seen quite plainly through good glass. Some days this is more visible than others, but it seems to be more a product of lighting condition than air density or humidity.

BTW, increased humidity caused decreased air density, since the molecular weight of water vapor is 0.94 and the molecular weight of clean air (the reference) is 1.00.
 
#15 ·
I have seen the bullet itself when fired from a handgun, on two separate occasions. Both times were pretty much the same type of setting; an indoor shooting range. First time was over thirty years ago. I took my wife's boss to a local range in Lorton, VA. We were assigned a lane next to the concrete wall, which was painted white. We each had a Browning Hi-Power pistol and I also took along my Ruger Redhawk .44 Magnum with a 5.5" barrel. I let him shoot a cylinder of my handloads and I saw five out of the six bullets go down range into the target. The best way to describe what it looked like was a gold colored laser beam. I attributed this phenomenon to the lighting and the fact that it was operating on 60Hz.

The second time was more recent, within the past ten years, also at a local indoor range. My friend and I were shooting 9mm pistols and the same thing occurred for what I believe was the same reason; the lighting.
 
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#18 ·
They are not really contrails, but a disturbance in the atmosphere caused by the bullet passing through the air. The denser the air, the more likely you are to observe the disturbance, assuming you are in the right position, the lighting is correct, etc.

Contrails or condensation trails are the cooled, condensed exhaust from an aircraft engine, primarily water vapor that has crystallized.

So the answer to the OP's questions is: No.
 
#25 · (Edited)
What you are seeing is known as TRACE. It’s literally the bullet boiling the humidity in the air. Trace is what a spotter follows via the spotting scope to guide the shooter(sniper) on correction in relation to the target. The first thing you learn when spotting is how to pick it up, follow it through the bullet’s arc all the way into the target. Here is a decent explanation:

 
#30 ·
What you are seeing is known as TRACE.
You are correct here, it IS referred to as the trace.
It’s literally the bullet boiling the humidity in the air. Trace is what a spotter follows via the spotting scope to guide the shooter(sniper) on correction in relation to the target. The first thing you learn when spotting is how to pick it up, follow it through the bullet’s arc all the way into the target.
I respectfully disagree. By your perception, we are "boiling" water vapor, which converts it to...water vapor. No, this is NOT what happens.
Here is a decent explanation:
Nowhere at this link does it say "boiling the humidity" and in fact, your own link clearly states we are seeing a "disturbance", which is actually a change in density due to shock wave compression.

Again, water vapor is less dense than clean air and IF humidity even enhances visibility (after watching more than 10,000 bullets go downrange for a living, I'm not convinced), it is via the slight increase in differential between the lesser/humid air density and the compressed shock wave. No "boiling". See the book cover posted above.

We need to understand the science and stop coming up with guesses that seem to fit.
 
#26 ·
Saw in an interview a witness claimed he saw contrails from bullets fired at Trump. He said this not that rare for hot, humid days in PA.

I’ve only shot in deserts (Sonoran in AZ and High Desert in OR, which is similar to Great Basin). Meaning, I only know about low humidity, clear air, and high temps in summer. I’ve seen flashing glints from jacketed bullets when sun angle is correct and bullets’ paths are 90 perpendicular to me.

So my question to you in Northeast, Midwest, and Southeast, have you ever seen a bullet leave a contrail, however short the contrail may have been? Thanks.
Image

It isn't a contrail. It’s the disturbance of the air and change in the density of the air.
With a good cameral, it’s easy to capture.
With the correct background and good lighting, one can see a bullet in flight with the eyes only.
Twice, I have seen a bullet in flight.
 
#29 ·
Saw in an interview a witness claimed he saw contrails from bullets fired at Trump. He said this not that rare for hot, humid days in PA.

I’ve only shot in deserts (Sonoran in AZ and High Desert in OR, which is similar to Great Basin). Meaning, I only know about low humidity, clear air, and high temps in summer. I’ve seen flashing glints from jacketed bullets when sun angle is correct and bullets’ paths are 90 perpendicular to me.

So my question to you in Northeast, Midwest, and Southeast, have you ever seen a bullet leave a contrail, however short the contrail may have been? Thanks.
Yes. Humidity is the factor. I have a gun buddy who shots .17wmr and he says he can see the bullet moving down range.
In the Trump assassination attempt, there is a photo of the bullet whizzing behind Trump's head. It was a couple feet of streak. I assume the bullet was faster than the camera's "shutter" and that caused the "whizzing" streak. In YouTube videos of long range shots, the path of the bullet can be discerned.