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Another 320 goes off on its own.

6.4K views 66 replies 43 participants last post by  Dumbdumb  
#1 ·
#6 ·
Many holsters for open carry tilt outward to facilitate easy, fast access to the grip. Many all polymer paddle style holsters are like this. Depending on your build, this can be a significant tilt that does indeed angle the muzzle toward the thigh. The entry wound would be in the lower thigh, near the knee, I would think.

Having said that, I'm sure that officer screwed up and is covering his butt. While helping some ambulance chasing lawyer dig into SIG's deep pockets. Would like to know more.
 
#10 ·
Here is a 6 minute video from CBS Austin Texas:


The piece seems long on emotion and short on facts.

There is no detail on the type of holster or the accessories that may have been installed on the P320.

News story:


This would indicate some type of retention holster:

Bastrop County Sheriff’s Office will conduct an independent investigation into the incident, Gilbreath said. He said body-worn camera video from the responding officers showed that Currington’s gun was in the holster when they arrived. He said the video shows Maxwell securing Currington’s gun. Maxwell had to eject the empty shell casing from the chamber, which Gilbreath said proves the gun was locked into Currington’s holster and thus unable to cycle. Gilbreath said there is no way for anything to touch the trigger while it was in the holster.

So... is it possible that there was some interference between a locking retention device and the trigger? Is this another case where a weapon light allowed enough motion within the holster for the trigger to be actuated because of interference within the trigger guard with the locking retention mechanism? Those facts would be interesting to understand.
 
#16 ·
I'm now a believer !

Last nite my P320 suddenly leapt off the nightstand and began chasing me around the house, firing indiscriminately. Fortunately for me it ran out of ammo & I was able to lure it into the safe with what looked like freshly loaded mags (they were loaded with training 'rounds'). It's been banging around in there since, clearly totally pizzled at me for trapping it like that.

Not sure what to do next ................. other than to sue the pants off Sig !
 
#20 ·
Of interest, Ford went through similar problems with their Crown Victoria Police Interceptor. The gestalt was that their gas tank was defective, causing a number of vehicle fires. Statistics don't lie, right?

Ford actually produced a kevlar lined trunk liner which was designed to prevent objects from penetrating the back of the vehicle and the gas tank during accidents.

Well, the real issue was that a huge number of Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptors spend many hours parked along high speed highways when using radar to monitor roads for speeders, and as a result are unusually vulnerable for rear end collisions. When they get hit from the rear at high speed, their gas tanks are often penetrated and catch fire.

It wasn't a vehicle design problem. It was how the vehicle was commonly utilized.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Of interest, Ford went through similar problems with their Crown Victoria Police Interceptor. The gestalt was that their gas tank was defective, causing a number of vehicle fires. Statistics don't lie, right?

Ford actually produced a kevlar lined trunk liner which was designed to prevent objects from penetrating the back of the vehicle and the gas tank during accidents.

Well, the real issue was that a huge number of Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptors spend many hours parked along high speed highways when using radar to monitor roads for speeders, and as a result are unusually vulnerable for rear end collisions. When they get hit from the rear at high speed, their gas tanks are often penetrated and catch fire.

It wasn't a vehicle design problem. It was how the vehicle was commonly utilized.
This is not rocket science. If we accept two premises: 1) that the P320 cannot fire by itself, and that 2) the operator did not pull the trigger, it is obvious that something else depressed the trigger. The prime suspect is the type of holster commonly utilized, designed to intrude into the trigger guard area--a retention feature against which the design of the gun, absent an auxiliary safety, provides no safeguard. Sooner or later, a momentary distortion of the holster, or movement of the gun inside it, is going to trip the trigger.

M
 
#24 ·
My take is there is lot of smoke .... still looking for data.
1) Has anyone offered a reason for any 320 "going off on its own"? Has a mechanical or design reason been offered for the problem? I would think the plaintiff bar would take that approach.
2) Are all 320s the same design i.e. are all models affected, or is the data set too slim to point to a particular model?
3) Has the military been complaining? My understanding is they have a large number of their variants.
4) Are there other guns reporting a similar problem?
 
#25 ·
This comment says it all "police officer says this gun has a potentially fatal flaw". Another LEO incident, hoping for a full recovery though. One of my local female LEO had an ND a few months ago and it was a Glock. Still waiting for the plaintiffs lawyers to point out the flaw or flaws in the P320 that make them discharge without a trigger pull.
 
#32 ·
And Every small department (and some larger ones) are too cheap to buy new and approved holsters for their new P320. Every department is too cheap to buy Manual Safety models of the P320.
(At least one event occurred when a female officer carried all her gear resting on her right hip with her duty pistol from her desk to her vehicle. She was scared silly afterwards but no one at her agency suggested a MS for her pistols.) A MS helps with poorly trained officers or officers without confidence in their ability and/or weapon and without enough training/practice to overcome these deficiencies.
$$$$ rules the world so why do agencies send their people out without spending the $$$$?
 
#27 ·
I agree, having a thumb saftey gives everyone an option. I installed one on my P320c myself, so I can have the option of having the saftey on or off depending the situation. All LEO issued firearms should have a mandatory thumb saftey. I read somewhere that Sig designed the P320, without a thumb saftey, on law enforcement departments recommendations.
 
#30 ·
So... is it possible that there was some interference between a locking retention device and the trigger? Is this another case where a weapon light allowed enough motion within the holster for the trigger to be actuated because of interference within the trigger guard with the locking retention mechanism? Those facts would be interesting to understand.
Most Safariland holsters (the ones with the recall) lock on the ejection port/slide, not the light (at least the ones I have for WMLs do). Generally, many holsters designed for WMLs leave a large gap around the trigger guard to accommodate the WML. All it takes is a pen, pencil, shirt, etc to get in there and away we go.

So far on every case I've seen with the details and facts, it's been a user error. Still waiting for a valid case where the gun actually goes off when it's not being mishandled.
Do you include improper holster fit (ie, the holster manufacturer) to be user error?
 
#34 ·
Do you include improper holster fit (ie, the holster manufacturer) to be user error?
I do. If a firearm is a lethal weapon, shouldn't the Agency and the individual LEO give it "lethal weapon" level familiarity and respect? Shouldn't the Agency and the individual LEO spend the time and money to ensure competent handling?
 
#37 ·
A few realities.
1. If someone believes "the pen is mightier than the sword," go to a gunfight with only your pen.
2. Repeating a lie often enough won't make it the truth. Rahm Emanuel is a commie idiot.
3. When someone that isn't a Leftist tool can prove the guns go off by themselves, we will listen.
 
#41 ·
Competent handling of firearms is a necessity. Lack of continued education and training will bring complacency which results in the news stories. Lawyers capitalize on the opportunity to bring a lawsuit against large companies which probably will never see a trial but will end in an undisclosed settlement. Guaranteed money. Just remember the people who sued Dunkin Donuts when they spilled hot coffee on themselves. Hot coffee is HOT and you should be careful. Common sense and proper firearms handling should always be used when firearms are around.
 
#45 ·
The human factor comes in to play with any gun, regardless of the action type. This goes beyond the trigger. It involves the overall handling and stowing/storage of the firearm. Everything from selecting/using a sturdy holster, to one’s physical activity while wearing/carrying the firearm, to mental distractions, etc. Something as simple as splitting your attention between a conversation and holstering or unloading can have an impact.