What about this stuff? Not sure about body armor, but it might be worth a look.

9MM | 115GR | LEHIGH DEFENSE XP | 1100 FPS - 5" BARREL | 20/

 

What about this stuff? Not sure about body armor, but it might be worth a look.

9MM | 115GR | LEHIGH DEFENSE XP | 1100 FPS - 5" BARREL | 20/

Thanks, Jim. I'll check that ammo out. Appreciate the information.

 

This should answer the question

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That's why we practice/require head shots for our qualification.

 

add crotch, throat, hip and upper thighs to your regime...

 

I know a lot of LEO, and I would suggest running this question through your Department.

 

Greetings,

I carry concealed (Sig XMacro 9mm) because I'm a law enforcement officer and also because one of my biggest fears is not being able to neutralize an active shooter and save lives if the need arose. Nowadays, more active shooters are wearing body armor and I'd like to be equipped with ammo that can penetrate level 3 soft armor. I am not aware of any 9mm armor piercing ammo that's available to law enforcement. The only thing we have that defeats armor is .223 for our ARs. I thought about heavy lead solid core, 147 GR +P rounds that can stop bears and stuff (Buy Solid Core for USD 38.99 | Federal Ammunition), but I'm not sure it would be any better than the Vortex 115GR all-copper hollow points I currently carry when it comes to stopping someone wearing body armor.

Is anyone aware of 9mm ammo that defeats body armor that's legal and/or available to law enforcement or the public, and not prohibited by federal law?

As I run scenarios through my head, if I suspected the shooter was wearing body armor, or if center mass shots were ineffective, I imagine I could aim for the legs or take a head shot with my green dot, which I have sighted in at about 15 to 20 yards.

Any ammo and/or tactical advise is greatly appreciated. Be well.

. 357sig is 9mm

 

Sounds like a troll. A new leo (8 posts) asking about ammo that will penetrate body armor from a pistol. Such ammo is widely know to this community to be illegal for civilians to own. And a real leo should be familiar with the “cop killer” ammo that has been on the market for decades, THV, Arcane, KTW, and others.

Beware.

 

I would tend to agree, but not all Leos are created equal, he could be suffering from Glock Leg due to his P320

 

Body armor doesn’t cover the pelvic girdle
Aim low

 

Finally a veteran member with useful information. Thank you. How do you tolerate these guys with only 749 posts walking around with their fake 1000-yard stare.

 

Greetings,

I carry concealed (Sig XMacro 9mm) because I'm a law enforcement officer and also because one of my biggest fears is not being able to neutralize an active shooter off-duty. Nowadays, more active shooters are wearing body armor and I'd like to be equipped with ammo that can penetrate level 3 soft armor. I am not aware of any 9mm armor piercing ammo that's available to law enforcement. The only thing we have that defeats armor is .223 for our ARs. I thought about heavy lead solid core, 147 GR +P rounds that can stop bears and stuff (Buy Solid Core for USD 38.99 | Federal Ammunition), but I'm not sure it would be any better than the Vortex 115GR all-copper hollow points I currently carry when it comes to stopping someone wearing body armor.

Is anyone aware of 9mm ammo that defeats body armor that's legal and/or available to law enforcement or the public, and not prohibited by federal law?

As I run scenarios through my head, if I suspected the shooter was wearing body armor, or if center mass shots were ineffective, I imagine I could aim for the legs or take a head shot with my green dot, which I have sighted in at about 15 to 20 yards.

Any ammo and/or tactical advise is greatly appreciated. Be well.

FN USA FNt7 with proper ammo will pierce body armor

 

Rifle for body armor you noob.Pistols are meant for humans.

 

Rifle for body armor you noob.Pistols are meant for humans.

A rifle is certainly more effective. Use it if you have one available.

 

Yea, I’m not sure how many bad guys/dudes are buying the best amour plated inserts, I’m guessing most buy starter kits…..lol but if not wouldn’t steal core penetrate low end plates? Not betting my life on my theory but head shots, pelvis, legs, feet are all targets. I’m not firing two round burst I’m thinking I’ll just empty the magazine and worry about that police questions/interrogation if I’m still alive.

P.S. I carry a AR pistol in my EDC bag. 😎

 

I’m not sure how many bad guys/dudes are buying the best amour plated inserts, I’m guessing most buy starter kits….

or steal the best they can...

 

Depleted uranium. Of course you have to hand load them yourself.

 

I am not an expert (let's get that straight), but I wouldn't count on defeating unknown body armor with a pistol (who's gonna be able to tell what he has in the moment?).

If the guy (or gal) is loaded up tactical (and you're not sure what's under there), place head shots or two shots to the chest and one to the head (three all together). If you're carrying .357 SIG, only two shots will be necessary on average (two to the head or one to the chest and one to the head). And if you're loaded up with these (357 Sig 65gr. Xtreme Defender Solid Monolithic Hunting & Self Defense Ammo), you have probably tilted the odds in your favor even more in my opinion (2100 fps with 637 ft. lbs. of energy).

 

I'm going to need stats. Body armor on bad guys is not a real concern unless you can prove otherwise?

And please don't use gun grabber logic and cite a few incidence each year.

 

I’m not trying to be snarky, but there’s a difference in being prepared… and being paranoid. I mean what if he not only has class IV armor, but he’s wearing a ballistic helmet, face shield, carrying a ballistic breach shield, and hopped up on cocaine too? Guess I need that .50cal revolver after all.

 

Where is Alaskapopo? I'm sure he has some valuable information to provide, always seems to be well educated on these things, as well as all things law enforcement as well as civilian rights!

 

Wow, use the edit feature to change the Title, and re word the Opening Post. Way to go.👍

 

Like others here are saying. If 2-3 rounds in the chest doesn't put him down, go to a different body area. Head or pelvic area.

Like I tell my friends the first time I take them hog hunting. Put one in the base of his ear and he will go down.

 

go to a different body area. Head or pelvic area.

Why not just go there to start w/???....

 

There are plenty of handgun ammo types out there that will defeat a "vest" (IIIA). You aren't going to be able to conveniently carry anything that will defeat plates (actual armor). That being the case if you decide to engage an active shooter who shows the "bulk" of wearing any kind of armor, rather than "test" shots to see what kind, you are better off aiming someplace else (headshots, or the excellent suggestions listed elsewhere of the extremely vascular pelvic girdle). Plates are cheap and fairly common now.

Personally, if I am somewhere and see/become aware of an armored active shooter, I am most likely going to prioritize exit. Unless they are between me and the door, my priority is to get home to my family.

Everything else aside there is also the kamikaze route taken recently in Colorado of taking the shooters weapon and beating their face in with it.

Stay safe out there everyone.

 

There are plenty of handgun ammo types out there that will defeat a "vest" (IIIA). You aren't going to be able to conveniently carry anything that will defeat plates (actual armor). That being the case if you decide to engage an active shooter who shows the "bulk" of wearing any kind of armor, rather than "test" shots to see what kind, you are better off aiming someplace else (headshots, or the excellent suggestions listed elsewhere of the extremely vascular pelvic girdle). Plates are cheap and fairly common now.

Personally, if I am somewhere and see/become aware of an armored active shooter, I am most likely going to prioritize exit. Unless they are between me and the door, my priority is to get home to my family.

Everything else aside there is also the kamikaze route taken recently in Colorado of taking the shooters weapon and beating their face in with it.

Stay safe out there everyone.

It actually depends on the situation, if I have my son with me my main priority is to get him to safety. If I'm alone I'm going to have to give it a shot.
I couldn't live with myself if I didn't at least try, plenty of targets other than Center of mass like you mentioned the pelvic vascular area legs head and neck.

 

As the saying goes- your pistol is to get you to your rifle.

If no rifle available, there are plenty of excellent suggestions here too. Particularly the throat/groin. Below the belt there's plenty of anatomy that can get jumbled up in a hurry. With most (please read that carefully, MOST) active shooter situations, you aren't dealing with Jason Bourne. Having the wind knocked out of most of these "characters" with a mag dump to the chest of some armor plating will change their attitudes pretty quickly. Likewise with a few soft tissue grinders.

 

I bought some M2 Ball AP (30-06) just to get my Garand up to battle-ready spec.

So far I've used it just as many times as the bayonet.

Not sure how effective it would be vs modern ammo. I mean, it is AP but the old GI rounds do not have the velocity of modern 30-06 hunting ammo.

Back to the OP....50AE will ring their bell every time. Even if it doesn't go through...they'll at least know you care.

 

Don't knock the bayonet. Years back a great club in southern Maine held their "Battle of the Bulge" match 300 up to 100 yards in three stages. Only WWII vintage rifles, most being the M1, although a selection of many others showed up...including a BART. Bayonets were encouraged and at the end they held a bayonet charge. As all firearms had to be cleared, then the movement at the target line, in a line was THE slowest charge in history. Great fun though.

BTW...still held to this day..23rd* Annual Battle of the Bulge - 2013 (scarfg.org)

But in my 30 years in LE and at one point reviewing all records, I NEVER remember a crimes with a mounted bayonet. Yet NJ (and some other states) thought the removal of that lug was going to drop crime.

 

Imo, the "active shooters wearing body armor" thing is totally over-blown. Have a few worn them? Sure. But there have also been a number of cases of the media reporting "shooter was wearing body armor" when they were merely wearing a chest rig (not surprisingly, media doesn't know the difference). Uvalde was an example of this. Also, since many of these shooters are on a suicide mission anyway, they know they're going to get taken out.

Regardless, you're talking about a very tiny percentage of what is already a tiny percentage of mass shooting incidents in the overall scheme of things. I'm not sure that's the remote scenario I would be loading a handgun for, but you do you.

 

Regardless, you're talking about a very tiny percentage

all it takes is one individual, just one, wearing BA to ruin your day...
why chance it..

 

In all seriousness, I think PD should be able to carry anything they want, as long as they can qualify with it. I honestly believe the popularity of 9 mm is due to FBI and government propaganda. Givin a choice I'm certain more law enforcement would choose to carry something better.

 

Options for those that prefer 40S&W or .45 like myself also hinders things. Yes theres lots to choose from, but no where near on par with the 9mm market. It took me so long to put a 9mm into my carry rotation and it was only recently with the Macro.

 

After looking at several "mass shooting events" where the media first reported the subject was wearing "tactical body armor", in virtually all those cases the subject was wearing a load bearing vest, not ballistic armor. If you think the shooter you're engaging is wearing armor, then shoot for the unprotected area.

Carrying a round that might over penetrate is sketchy at best. You're responsible for all your rounds, if it over penerates and hits a bystander, you have a problem.

 

I tend to lean towards the heavier bullets myself, I prefer to develop energy through weight rather than speed. I haven't done enough research on these lightweight penetrators to really understand how they would work on a vest or body armor. But the odds of me having to shoot somebody are extremely slim at best, so preparing for even rarer scenarios isn't even on my radar.

 

They work through speed, same way a rifle does. That's why IIIA is rated for most handgun rounds, but won't stop most rifle rounds. Similarly, that's why a .357 Sig pushing 2300 fps will also pop through IIIA (or a 9mm running ~2000fps).

 

Media always says ‘body armor’ because they want to associate it with bad people and bad events. Makes it easier to ban civilian ownership which some states like NY have already done.