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Sig v 1911 Muzzle

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294 views 19 replies 12 participants last post by  IngramTx  
#1 ·
My p229 SAO is my first Sig, which joins a batch of 1911s in my collection. I have had it to the range once: not enough familiarity to judge its accuracy. After a clean and lube, I noticed. first, a very minor wobble at the aft end of the slide and, more concerning, significant clearance between muzzle and slide.

The wobble doesn't concern me much. The muzzle end of the slide is suitably tight and the barrel locks up solidly in battery. The muzzle issue is perplexing.

In 1911s there is virtually zero clearance between barrel bushing and barrel. The bushing in my Les Baer .45 is so tight it takes a metal wrench to even turn the bushing at all. Even bushing-less 1911s are tightly fitted, barrel to slide.

So, the visible gap in my 229's slide-to-muzzle fitting is - well, would be - concerning, except that the barrel itself is dead solid in battery. So, is this a problem, or simply a gap in my Sig knowledge? 🦈

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#3 ·
You’re talking apples and oranges here. That is normal for pretty much most modern firearms. Their lockup is not the same as a 1911, BHP or CZ 75. I can show you pictures of many of my nines including my Q5 SF. They look like that but the lockup is solid.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Notice the shape and location of the gap between barrel and slide.

That's not the point where SIGs lock up the barrel with the slide, it's where tolerance is provided to allow the barrel to tilt upwards.

The slide locks up tightly against the bulged portion of the barrel's muzzle just a drop further back from the area you're looking at, and during recoil, the slide slips over that portion of the barrel allowing the barrel to rise.
 
#9 ·
UPDATE: Just back from the range. As many of you predicted, my worries were unfounded. The gun is accurate. Capital "A." At 7 yards, first five shots off a rest were within about 2-1/2". Some of the remaining 10 rounds went through the same hole. Flyer on me. I can't shoot any better than that, and it's only my second range trip with this gun.

I'm not running out to sell my 1911s, but I sure "dig my Sig."

Why didn't anybody tell me...? 🦈

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First shots

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Next two mags. The holes top and high left are .380 from my 1934 Beretta nightmare.
 
#12 ·
UPDATE: Just back from the range. As many of you predicted, my worries were unfounded. The gun is accurate. Capital "A." At 7 yards, first five shots off a rest were within about 2-1/2". Some of the remaining 10 rounds went through the same hole. Flyer on me. I can't shoot any better than that, and it's only my second range trip with this gun.

I'm not running out to sell my 1911s, but I sure "dig my Sig."

Why didn't anybody tell me...? 🦈

View attachment 678800

First shots

View attachment 678801

Next two mags. The holes top and high left are .380 from my 1934 Beretta nightmare.
The trigger pull of that 229 sao may not be as short/crisp as your 1911s; but, if you shoot that 229 a little you may find it is easy to shoot just as well. It is not as magazine picky either. For hammer fired p series sigs, mec gar magazines are your friend.
 
#10 · (Edited)
The design of the SIG P2xx series pistols (including the American manufactured P210a) uses a different barrel lockup system than the M1911a1.

There is no barrel to slide link in the SIG design. This requires that the barrel tilt during cycling, causing the muzzle of the barrel to move slightly up in the slide at the muzzle end.

The barrel's stability is implemented on one point near the muzzle and the slide to ejection port fit at the rear. It is driven against the horizontally locked in takedown level axle supported recoil spring rod wedging against the lug at the bottom of the barrel's chamber while it's in battery.

You'll see the barrel tilt lock in action here:



The M1911a1 locks by wedging the barrel into interlocking ridges and grooves at the inside of the slide, and through a slightly bulged area at the muzzle end of the barrel squeezing into the barrel bushing...

The fitment of the SIG design is precision manufactured and probably less costly to implement at high precision than the hand fitment needed in many M1911a1 pistols.

Note that the lockup on the European manufactured (Swiss) P210 pistols is slightly similar to that of the M1911a1. The American P210a runs support through the barrel lug without a separate link, and tilts against the muzzle without a barrel bushing, but locks on interior ridges within the slide.

Prior discussion:

 
#14 ·
Mec gar was and is an OEM for sig mags, so I would suspect that those are not 229 mags. There are two different types of 229 mags. Oneness for early 229s and 228s, slimmer and originally only held 13 rounds the newer 229 mags are wider and hold 15. If the emag goes into the frame, but won't seat, it is not a 229 mag or 228 mag. Early 229 and 228 mags will insert into newer 229s but will rattle.left to right.