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.40 cal s&w in the p226..any love?

15K views 66 replies 43 participants last post by  Raygixxer89  
#1 ·
I know pretty much the whole .40 cal. story. But back when the police were using .40 s&w quite a bit and 9mm was around as well,what happened to the .40?
Did 9mm just get better with more options for power?
If .40 was good back a ways,why are so many trade in’s available today. I think it’s a great round,right in that pocket between 9mm and .45acp
Feedback please & thanks!!
 
#2 ·
As I have stated many times, I believe it was due to diversity in LE, that caused the death of the .40 S&W. Those who cannot handle recoil cannot qualify, which is a requirement to wear a badge, and since most larger departments have a standardized duty ammunition, most went to milder recoiling 9mm.

I swear by .40 S&W as it's my favorite round, although I have several 9mm, as well as .357 Sig, and .45 Auto chambered Sigs...
 
#54 ·
I had a Glock 23, and still have a Sig 239 .40 cal. , and a HK VP 40.
I think experienced shooters can handle them well. The pistol inexperienced don't handle the "snappines" well.
As a retired LEO, I believe it should be a requirement to be proficient in MOST ALL CALIBERS
You never know the situation that will present itself. And you find yourself with a different firearm than you carry: 12 Gauge shotgun with heavy load of buckshot.
A 357 magnuthat the perp dropped. A lever action 44 magnum in the back window of a truck.
Your job should require you to be at least able to manage them.
I want the fireman that comes to my rescue in a burning building, to be strong enough to carry me down. I think they practice with all sorts of ladders , axes, mechanical jaws and need to be able to manage many.
 
#6 · (Edited)
My Glocks are .40 S&W, and I bought a slide/barrel for my SIG P226 in .40 S&W. It's the caliber on which I have standardized my pistols. My Legion P229 is 9mm only and my P938 is 9mm as well, but I got the .22 LR conversion kit for it. The venerable forty is now and always has been a very effective cartridge. It gives nearly the punch of the .45 ACP with very nearly the magazine capacity of the 9mm. It may be seeing a lull in popularity but it's here to stay.

I was a dyed-in-the-wool .45 ACP guy, relying on a Colt Combat Commander for home defense. When I wanted my wife to be part of home defense it was after we started a family. She wanted in and I was an enthusiastic supporter, but I was concerned that starting her on .45 ACP could intimidate her and turn her off to the whole thing. So I started her training on a .22 LR Ruger for basic shooting mechanics and eased her up to the 9mm. But if my wife is home alone and there is trouble I want her to be able to meet that trouble more effectively. I also wanted her to have more than 8 rounds. My Glock 23 in .40 S&W gave her 14 rounds before needing to reload.
 
#55 · (Edited)
I've added a 9mm barrel/slide combo plus some 9mm magazines for a quick switch from .40 S&W in my P226. 9mm is great for plinking and working on basic shooting mechanics at the range. On a typical range trip I start with 100 rds. of 9mm, then finish with 100 rds. of .40 S&W.
 
#8 ·
For defense, .40 all day long. Target shooting makes 9mm more affordable. I have both versions of the p226. I prefer the German .40 despite of the holster wear.

the .40 p226 only require a barrel change to shooting 9mm btw. The 9mm p226 cannot take a standard .40 barrel. If I didn’t have two 226, I would just get a .40 and a spare 9mm barrel for practice
 
#9 ·
As stated in my previous posts here, I’m ok with .40 and especially .357 Sig because some real sexy guns were designed and chambered in those calibers. Plus, unlike 9mm which are fetching premiums, those guns can be had fairly cheap. So to answer the OP’s original question, yes I’d love a 226 in .40. Matter of fact the first one I cross paths with will most likely be coming home with me.
 
#11 ·
Willard and others touched on the reasons. I'll give you my perspective. At one time, LE qualified out to 50 yards with a double action revolver with a 10-12lb trigger pull. They qualified at least twice a year with a fair amount of rounds being fired for qualification. In many agencies, that standard has been watered down to 15 yards max, once a year with some sort of striker-fired pistol with a trigger pull that's about half of the revolvers from back in the day and less total rounds fired. However it's spun, the bottom line rational was to be able to qualify as many people as possible with less rounds fired. Many agencies sponsor a recruit through an academy. Firearms isn't the first thing they do, usually a lot of classroom stuff comes first. So by the time firearms rolls around the agency has a certain amount of $ invested in a recruit. If they wash out then that is $ down the drain. So the standards have been watered down to allow a higher % to qualify.

So we come to the 40 caliber. First designed in pistols that were either all metal or at least poly pistols designed around the 40 from the ground up. Pistols like the HK USP and IIRC the Sig P226 or P229. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on the Sigs. Pistols like Glock were simply 9mm pistols that they made the muzzle hole bigger and changed the mags. No, I'm not kidding. That's why early Glocks had issues and another pin had to be added. Also Gen 3 and 4 Glocks in 40 have issues with a WML, but that's a different subject. Point is, shooting 40 out of an all metal gun, or a pistol like an HK USP with the recoil reduction system is quite different than shooting 40 out of a lighter poly pistol. For me, shooting 40 or 357sig out of my HK USPc is like shooting 9mm out of my Glock. There is a difference. But what has taken over the LE market by and large? Yep, poly striker-fired pistols. Now I don't say that is necessarily a bad thing overall, but the fact is that today's generation of shooter (LEO and civilian) doesn't possess the same skill set as those that grew up on revolvers/all metal pistols. As such, the FBI went back to 9mm after having abandoning it back in the 80's because it has less recoil that 40. So again, more people can qualify with it.

Now to be clear, and all caliber wars aside, the 9mm has advanced since the 80's. Gold Dot, HST and other rounds have put the 9mm on a level playing field with the other service calibers. In other words, service calibers are about the same in terminal ballistics. One is not head-and-shoulders above the other these days. And 9mm is cheaper for an agency to buy all things being equal.

And when the FBI went 9mm a lot of agencies and people in general jumped on the bandwagon as if 40 was suddenly bouncing off bad guys. No, it was a fiscal decision as well as trying to cater to the lowest common denominator of recruit. So rather than take the time to train someone up to a higher level, we lowered the standards so more people could pass while saving a few bucks along the way. The merits of this line of reasoning can be debated.

However, the silver lining was that for 'those in the know' we could now pick up 40's at bargain basement prices in many cases. And a pistol that shoots 40 makes more sense because it can also be 9mm and/or 357sig, usually with just a barrel change (and mag in the case of 9mm although you can shoot 9mm out of a Glock 40 mag). A 9mm pistol can't always go up but a 40 can usually go down or sideways so to speak.

Anyway, my two cents after three decades in LE and firearms training for the agency (well, 24 of those years).
 
#57 ·
The Sig P226 and 229 were originally designed and sold as 9mm pistols. Later, with the growing popularity of other calibers, Sig introduced a .40 offering and even proceeded to develop its own centerfire pistol cartridge - the .357SIG.
The .40 came into existence because of the inability of too many FBI agents and recruits to comfortably or effectively handle the new 10mm that the agency had a hard on for. So S&W took that 10mm cartridge and cut it down some, reducing the powder charge and the attendant recoil.... hence the moniker "shorty .40" came into being.
Meanwhile, a lot of progress was being made in projectile design, especially with the 9mm. Ballistics improved with regards to both wound channel creation and barrier penetration, and the desk geeks decided that rather than carry anything referred to as a "shorty", the agency would return to the (now improved) 9mm cartridge. Other agencies and departments followed suit (or THE suits, who frankly, have always been overburdened with bureaucracy).
 
#12 ·
My 40 cal Sig P226’s are my favorite shooters. Several examples of it’s demise have already been shared and are very accurate IMHO.

The unfortunate truth is companies like Sig have abandoned 40. They contribute to it’s lack of popularity giving the reasons “it doesn’t sell”. Well since you stopped making it people lost the choice and yes, it doesn’t sell. Also the “it doesn’t sell” & “it’s hard to handle” narrative has been pushed to create a bogus truth to it.

Training is key to being able to handling any round. Improving strength and shooting often and the 40 is a breeze to shoot.
 
#15 ·
Still have my department S&W 4006. It's my only .40S&W but I wouldn't trade it for any other Smith. This one was designed to be a .40S&W and is not a convert from anything. Solid stainless and absorbs a lot of the impulse. It's a breeze to shoot and to qualify with.
 
#16 ·
Many years ago, when I was testing to try and get into the Police Academy, one of the tests was a revolver trigger pull.

They would hand you a S&W 686 and you had to pull the trigger in double action as many times as you could one handed.

The minimum pulls needed to pass to the next phase was 16.

Sadley, some of the cadets I've seen lately couldn't pass this test today.
 
#17 ·
40S&W will always be my favorite side arm caliber for many reasons, scientific or personal opinion. Whether it be EDC or CCW. Yes currently I recently started to carry 9mm as I’m beginning to diversify my collection and rotation, but it will never fully replace anything I have in 40.
 
#19 · (Edited)
i got into .40 when it first came out, I bought a 4006. I love the round, all but one of my pistols are .40s and Sigs. I do have one P220 that I bought when we switched to the 320. I also snagged a .40 p320 carry when we switched. I added a AXG frame and sent the slide out to be milled for an optic and added suppressor high sights. I had to do this since Sig is a 9mm company and doesn’t offer this in .40. It boggles my mind how they don’t do production runs of .40 periodically. Glock still offers .40 models so they must be selling.

I load for the round, I can crank out a bunch of rounds on the Dillon quick. I have a bunch of brass that no one wanted since the trend is 9mm. I’m good with the exception I like to pick up a 229 in .40 one day. I had one that I let go and never replaced it. It would be kind of redundant to have one since I have a couple 2022s and the P320 carry AXG.

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#20 ·
My wife cannot handle the recoil of .40 so she shoots 9mm. :hide: I'm a fotay guy but with the age getting up to where body aches just by getting up first thing in the morning, I have some complete 9mm slide and 9mm conversion barrel to join the wifey soon. :hihihi:
 
#26 ·
As a non LEO, I have no inherent protections for a multiple shot self defense. Any round that offers even the slightest advantage to stop a threat with only one shot fired , is a good thing.The 40 or 357 sig is that round vs a 9. A second shot fired {as a non-LEO or federal agent} can fast be construed as fired in offense rather than defense. My use , on skunk and other unwanted yard intruders. Has shown that the 40 and the 9 are not equal.{even with any advancement in ammo} On skunks I have no reason to have to only shoot once, but for self defense, I do. As people debate the idea that using reloaded ammo, for self defense, is somehow a bad thing in court . {as if you are going to make a 357 sig deadlier because it's a reload, those ridiculous claims are foolish} But any more than one shot to stop a threat can soon go against the self defender. I choose 40
 
#27 ·
I like the .40 S&W since it was my first duty gun issued And I carried a 1995 P229 I still own To this day; I have three other P229’s in .40 S&W. However, the one thing I never cared for in the P226 .40 S&W is that it has the same magazine capacity as P229. Maybe if it had the same magazine capacity as a Glock 22 I would have bought one. I may still buy one because right now they are the only affordable P226’s to be had, and buying a P226 complete slide assembly is very affordable. I have a 1988 West German P226, and a lot of magazines for the model