[Philipl]

So 9mm went from 19 cents -22 cents a round to 60-65cents a round for target ammo. Manufacturing costs sure didn't triple where is the excess profit going?

 

[dwg13013]

It is called supply and demand.

Every industry has good times and bad times.
Real question is what is the correct price, because sometimes it is very low, and some very high

I know for reloading I have enough primers to last maybe the end of my days.
They are very high now, when you can find them.
I bought them very low, when there were plenty everywhere.

 

[NHTerryP]

You have some retailers that are holding the line on pricing so that tells me it is at the retail or distributor level.

 

[SIG Sauer]

You have some retailers that are holding the line on pricing so that tells me it is at the retail or distributor level.

yup

 

[Whatever68]

So because everything is selling raise the price because you can......like it was said cost to manufacture it did not go up so it has to be most retailers price gouging ...... When it is food or gasoline the government steps in to keep prices fair..... Where are they now....

 

[Slowmo]

Reminds me of 2008 gas prices and the news commentary about raising retail prices when still selling off lower-cost supplies.

In that note, here’s a conceptual question:

Are you a replacement-cost guy or an historical-cost guy? Example - On Wednesday, I was testing a newly-purchased P220 and used old S&B FMJ (cost of ~$0.33 / round)and some old Gold Dots. I had bought the Gold Dots during one of TargetSports’s periodic half-price sales (for maybe $0.45 / round, if I recall correctly).

So, would you have concluded that you were shooting $0.45 Gold Dots or $1.70 - $1.80 Gold Dots on Wednesday?

 

[Sigarms228]

Federal has almost doubled the price of their ammo at their website so that could also mean they have significantly increased what they charge middle men ammo sellers and direct sales. Also keep mind that in more normal supply there are typically large discounts, such as buying a couple semi trailers worth, for volume purchases that I am sure have disappeared. In the end it does not matter and current prices are what they are driven by supply and demand. Nothing wrong with a retailers raising priced when supply is very low and demand is very high and that also keeps product available. Gas stations as an example do that all the time, even the ones owned by oil companies. It is also very possible that manufacturing costhave indeed increased for ammo manufacturers. Covid 19 restrictions and lock downs have cost most businesses a ton of money including increased costs of supplies to them and greatly reduced productivity levels.

 

[louchia]

The problem is exacerbated by those who will pay those inflated prices.

 

[GenuineImitation]

I'm not an economist, nor do I play one on TV, but I have read Thomas Sowell's "Basic Economics."

Both distributors and retailers are increasing prices, in order to tamp down demand (discourage hording), ensure that they have some product on the shelves (retailers can not stay in business with empty shelves) and give folks who truly need ammunition an opportunity to purchase it (albeit at elevated prices). In a free market, rising prices are an essential signal to manufacturers and potential manufacturers that there is an opportunity to make money in an under-served market.

Manufacturers now need to do some second order thinking. What is driving the demand and is this a trend, or only a momentary spike. It wouldn't make sense to purchase and install additional equipment and hire another shift of workers, for instance, if the spike were expected to end say, in early November. But, it may make sense to pay existing employees to put in some additional overtime. Every manufacturer will be making these calculations, at a minimum, on a monthly basis.

If the demand returns to pre-panic levels, manufacturers will not need to fire workers that they never hired, nor mothball equipment that they never purchased. However, if demand continues to rise, manufacturers will take steps to substantially increase their production, in order too meet demand and/or new manufacturers will enter into the ammunition business. Either way, when supply and demand equalize, prices will fall once again.

 

[woody b]

So because everything is selling raise the price because you can......like it was said cost to manufacture it did not go up so it has to be most retailers price gouging ...... When it is food or gasoline the government steps in to keep prices fair..... Where are they now....

Do you really want the Government to control ammo prices?

 

[RoyConley]

Do you really want the Government to control ammo prices?

Good Point.

People should be careful what they ask for, they might get it.

 

[seebee62]

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/great-primer-shortage-2020/383204


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Swirling Eddy]

Wholesale prices are also up. It's not all at the retail level. My local LGS has very little ammo. Their self-defense ammo is almost double the old price and I know for a fact that they have not increased the mark up. They have no range ammo and he has told me he has refused to order some ammo because with his normal markup he doesn't want customers accusing him of price gouging.

The last lead smelting plant in the US closed in 2014 due to increased EPA regulations. Virtually all our lead comes from China. They halted production for at least a month due to COVID. Tariffs have also increased so the cost of lead is up. I've also read to expect all non-lead hunting ammo to be higher this fall for similar reasons.

I'm getting ready to stock up on steel shot and Hevishot.

 

[Ohio SIG]

Any time you have a maxed out manufacturing process it costs the manufacturer more money to get out more units. And not at a one to one increase. Adding production shifts means more overhead, management, training, shipping, etc. Adding equipment is a large out of pocket expense that isn't recovered for many years. Saturdays and Sundays are overtime labor costs.

It's not like they can just open up the bullet spigot to get more bullets. There's raw materials that have to be acquired through the supply chain, guess what? They raise their prices too due to demand. I've been in manufacturing engineering and management for 35+ years. It's never a one to one increase in units to profit when there's a huge demand for product.

 

[boriqua]

This thread comes up on almost every gun board. I find them amusing. Gun boards and gun board patrons are notorious for shouting from the rooftops (or on their computer keyboard) "damn socialist gonna ruin the country" " dont want no socialism here" "this aint Cuba"

Then invariably every few years there is an ammo/gun rush and the same groups that are screaming about socialism want some governing body to regulate costs so that everyone everyone can afford to buy it.

Huh?!

Sounds like when I hear lefties scream that Jeff Bezos is worth billions... like its a bad thing .. I am glad i live in a country where you can, through luck, hard work and smart decisions still become a billionaire.

Wasnt that long ago we had this happen .. what maybe 8 years back. If you didnt buy during the gun giveaway period and stock up on either ammo or reloading supplies then shame on you but .. the free market is called such for a reason. Sucks to be on the wrong side of it but you cant have the good without the bad sometimes.

I picked up some guns at FANTASTIC prices over the last few years. Even got my red box sig 229 for $469.

Every time I had a few bucks I bought a couple of jars of powder, Saw someone had a case of primers for sale locally and figured. well primers dont go bad .... so stuck them in the closet. Have been stocking up on bullets little by little when I saw a sale or found a few bucks in the budget.

It is no one elses responsibility to maintain your level of comfort. It is America and the market is going to decide the price.

Unless of course .. we changed our minds and are suddenly all in on Socialism.

 

[tdubya]

Let's do a little thought experiment. Let's put the shoe on the other foot and say the real estate market is red hot and you decide to sell your house. Are you going to say no to what you can get for it and price it at "normal" market price? I didn't think so. Like your house is your property and it is your right to sell it for whatever you want, so is ammunition to the manufacturers and sellers.

So is life in a free market capitalist economy that has benefited mankind more than any other economic system.

 

[GenuineImitation]

This thread comes up on almost every gun board. I find them amusing. Gun boards and gun board patrons are notorious for shouting from the rooftops (or on their computer keyboard) "damn socialist gonna ruin the country" " dont want no socialism here" "this aint Cuba"

Then invariably every few years there is an ammo/gun rush and the same groups that are screaming about socialism want some governing body to regulate costs so that everyone everyone can afford to buy it.

Huh?!

Sounds like when I hear lefties scream that Jeff Bezos is worth billions... like its a bad thing .. I am glad i live in a country where you can, through luck, hard work and smart decisions still become a billionaire.

Wasnt that long ago we had this happen .. what maybe 8 years back. If you didnt buy during the gun giveaway period and stock up on either ammo or reloading supplies then shame on you but .. the free market is called such for a reason. Sucks to be on the wrong side of it but you cant have the good without the bad sometimes.

I picked up some guns at FANTASTIC prices over the last few years. Even got my red box sig 229 for $469.

Every time I had a few bucks I bought a couple of jars of powder, Saw someone had a case of primers for sale locally and figured. well primers dont go bad .... so stuck them in the closet. Have been stocking up on bullets little by little when I saw a sale or found a few bucks in the budget.

It is no one elses responsibility to maintain your level of comfort. It is America and the market is going to decide the price.

Unless of course .. we changed our minds and are suddenly all in on Socialism.

Our schools are spending so much time indoctrinating kids into the latest Leftist pablum, that they no longer have time to teach history, civics, or economics, much less the three R's. Therefore, I'm never surprised when I see calls for the government to "do something."

Many people want the government to protect the consumer. A much more urgent problem is to protect the consumer from the government.
- Milton Friedman

 

[Firearms Collector]

Reminds me of 2008 gas prices and the news commentary about raising retail prices when still selling off lower-cost supplies.

In that note, here’s a conceptual question:

Are you a replacement-cost guy or an historical-cost guy? Example - On Wednesday, I was testing a newly-purchased P220 and used old S&B FMJ (cost of ~$0.33 / round)and some old Gold Dots. I had bought the Gold Dots during one of TargetSports’s periodic half-price sales (for maybe $0.45 / round, if I recall correctly).

So, would you have concluded that you were shooting $0.45 Gold Dots or $1.70 - $1.80 Gold Dots on Wednesday?

Yep on the Gas prices. As Soon As Oil prices go up even on the day of it the Service Stations Immediately Raise Their prices. But Not When The Price goes Down.

 

[93vpmod]

Yep on the Gas prices. As Soon As Oil prices go up even on the day of it the Service Stations Immediately Raise Their prices. But Not When The Price goes Down.

Old saying, Up like a rocket, down like a feather...

 

[Wulfmann]

Some are speaking very much like they want socialism.

Any time you ask the government to regulate things get worse never better

As Reagan once said "The worst thing a person can ever hear is a knock on the door and someone saying I am with the government and I am here to help"

The mention of it being illegal to gouge on gas prices is inaccurate.
Gas has ranged between less than $2.00 to over $4.00 a gallon.
What is illegal is for gas stations to raise their prices under a declared state of emergency as once a Hurricane Warning has been issued

I have a simple way to combat these high prices:
I don't pay them.
I simply refuse to buy ammo or components if they are not the price I want to pay.
I do not, ever, demand you reduce your price under threat of government interference

Anyone paying too much for ammunition is saying they were too stupid to recognize the reality of the spikes and valleys of ammo pricing and take advantage of the historically low prices of 2018-19

How many times will ammo prices surge and collapse before you figure out this reality and stop crying when you ignore said reality and simply take responsibility for not doing the obvious

Buy it cheap and stack it deep was a realistic saying.
If you ignore that its on you