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What is the best carry gun/caliber?

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This question is not intended to be a troll post! Or a caliber debate! It is simply based on a few recent threads, some with a lot of data involved. My question is simple, what is the best frame / design/caliber that is most reliable and most proven worldwide in modern handgun use?:unsure: I'm not trying to start any trouble here, I understand that I am on a Sig Sauer forum, and that some bias May skew responses. Not going to list this as a poll question, I've had problems with that before just curious!...ABBO!!!
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Statistically speaking, the 357 magnum has the best reputation for 1-shot stops of any handgun. I'm guessing the stats are from back when cops carried revolvers. The 357 magnum can be loaded way beyond any 357 Sig, but a hot 357 Sig round is superior to any of the "duty" rounds out there in terms of velocity and energy. I think velocity is the real key to an incapacitating shot, because of the quick energy dump. I suspect the size of temporary wound cavity matters. The rounds I carry move at 2100 fps and are good for about 650fpe (Liberty defense makes one that is rated at 2300fps) That is approaching 10mm or AR pistol performance. It is almost twice the power of the Speer Gold dot 9mm that cops use. Even if they to use +P, hot 357 rounds are still 50% more powerful. Finally, the thing that supposedly allowed cops to go back to 9mm is the performance of the new hollowpoint bullets. From every test I've seen, the 357 Sig is 100% reliable when it comes to proper expansion. The same cannot be said for 9mm bullets when the noses get plugged with clothing.
That would be the old Hatcher Scale and the Marshall and Sanow study as regards .357 mag. .357 Sig is a great round , the case being conducive to feeding etc.etc. , however some of the claims as regards velocity etc............chunk of sodium time on many of them. Not to mention that said velocities are achieved with slugs so light that energy factors are just advertisement without all that much real world effect. Where it shines is within the niche it was designed for , to toss a 110 grain to 147ish grain slug at close to .357 mag velocities in an autoloading platform.
 

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Point of disagreement. " Carry a full size and everyone knows. "........no they don't. I'm living proof of that fact , but then I long ago learned to " dress around the weapon".........and ya can't conceal a 220 in a speedo , some folks need to learn that one.

Then you get to the size/weight/caliber/ concealability versus shootability, primarily with new shooters...........Micro 9s with plusPplus or lightweight snubbies in .357 or plus P .38 are most assuredly not the way to start folks out. I have a fetish for sub revolvers , have 'em to .44 mag..shoot 'em all well.....BUT....the MOST vicious handgun to shoot as far as recoil that I own is a 340 PD , a hair under 12 ounces unloaded. Heck of a backup gun but not a whole boatload of fun to practice with. Even with the 1 and 7/8th sit's more accurate than most would think , pretty fair minimalist emergency backpacking gun. The Spanish Inquisition to shoot more than a box at a time out of though.

I digress , sorry. Personally I don't have much trouble concealing something full size......but then that's of course a case of YMMV.
 

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HHhmmmm , lets toss a few more rabbit trails out for sake of discussion...as per "woods guns"...........define it. Purely a DLP scenario weapon? Actual survival tool? ( damnit will those of you wish Bush experience quit yelling " I know where ya are going with this) because in the latter case..............lets just say that in many parts of Bush Alaska you can feed yourself all summer long with a .22 and a trotline and half a dozen Conibears .

Then to the hypothetical Dystopian Urban fantasy..............or Detroit at 1 a.m. , where the comical phrase " pocket Ma Deuces" might actual carry some validity.

In the end is situation and individual taste/affinity dependent.............but heck , in an effort to support "equity"...............I'll just carry one of everything today.
 

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I originally set up a tool head for my Dillon for .40 just for that reason. All my .357 Sig guns have .40 barrels except the 320.

Look , if I end up following y'all down the .357 sig rabbit hole.....which is likely to happen since I increasingly muse about the chambering and it's potential.....if that happens it's ALL y'all's fault and I'm gonna make sure Santa gives you a choice between a Raven .25 and a Nambu Type 94 for Xmas..........

Even more so since I've had dies and a .357 Sig barrel laying around for months and done nothing with them.

It's all your damn fault I tell ya. Yeah that's the excuse.........peer pressure.
 

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;) Already had a Nambu and it’s one of the few guns I haven’t regretted selling. So you’re stuck with yours.

BUT ya’ll will like the .357 Sig. Montana Gold sells boollits ya’ll can easily reload, made special for reloading practice rounds. As I’m sure you’re aware, some patience and care must be exercised with resizing a bottlenecked case, and use case lube when reloading. But then, I’ve taken to a light spray of One Shot for all my pistol reloading.
Oh I'm not stuck with it , I buried the evil ******* 4 decades ago in a place far away , in a disassembled state with a stake through it's heart so it could never rise again.

Was already looking data over , since I've got all sorts .355 projectiles ( load for 9mm quite a lot) and a couple molds laying around , primers and propellant aleady have. I'll order a couple of hundred brass to play with and just have the guys at the club start saving the .357 Sig cases for me when they police up the ranges.
 

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My first experience with a handgun was a .45 4” 1911. I own a P365. If you are a grown *** man and can’t shoot a micro 9 then god help you.

UH huh...........so ya get on here and that's your FIRST post. You won't last long here. And don't put another shot across my bows . Furthermore there Mr. Pompous and Macho , a dislike for a certain platform doesn't remotely equate to incompetence. Big difference between CAN'T and won't.

In closing , ya want to dictate what I shoot? The pay all the freight and cost on it. Otherwise your gauranteed to incite conflict approach is just puffing from a blowhard.
 

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This was my chrono test with the 357 Sig Underwood Extreme Defender with the 65gr bullet:

Sig P224 3.5" barrel-- Vel/Energy 1st shot 2113/644, 2nd shot 2126/652 Glock 32 4.01" barrel-- Vel/Energy 1st shot 2178/685, 2nd shot 2225/714 Sig P226 4.409" barrel- Vel/Energy 1st shot 2189/692, 2nd shot 2237/722. They screamed out of my P226.

Highly similar to the results when you start going lighter weight in .357 mag and other mag revolvers , 9mm and .45 auto.

Likewise brings back all the old Elmer Keith versus Jack O'Connor debates/arguements over the velocity/lighter slug/ good b.c.s was more efficient than the larger bore/heavy slug at moderate velocity/ high S.D.

As an aside , initial measuring etc. reveal that not ALL 9mm oriented projectiles are going to work out. Case design , seating depths etc.

Starting goal? We'll see how deep into .357 mag range it will get within the 125ish grain window it was designed for , I'm quite interested in where it will go up and down from there. All data available indicates that it starts to degrade in performance above the 140 grain mark. That said there are only a few folks playing with the propellants that get great results in magnum revolvers ,h110 , 2400 etc.

Weight , I've never used the Underwood mono-construction type slugs , that said in .357 mag and .357 Max the lighter you go the more spectacular the performance is on * small game and predator size game*.......larger game calls for a heavier weight and construction slug. Same old game of choices.

My opinion is still that the .357 sig offers quite some potential for those willing to load for it , and frankly the opportunity for influence from both 9mm and .357 mag exists.....example , anything anyone is putting 2400 behind I can put ww296 behind with likely slightly better results.

So , ordered cases. And not just a couple of hundred. Data on the 226 barrel available as I get it loaded and it gets across my chrono. Yes I'll likely just buy a 229 barrel in .357 as well not that y'all got me interested.
 

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Hhmmmm , very interesting ballistic similarities between 7.62 x 25 (Tokarev) and .357 Sig given their variance in weight range and diameter.

Wildcatters musings on the potential of the case itself has me wondering what the .357 Sig case might do necked down to .30 or even the .312 of the 30 Super Carry. Maintain the current 19.6 grain capacity of the Sig case and I'd make a more than even bet it would stomp the .30 sc and Tokarev at the same projectile weights.
 
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