[MoRivera]

Strongly recommend folks find the time to watch/listen to this...maybe over morning coffee and lunch break. Very informative and insightful while staying practical and not hyped. Some of what we've discussed here but from someone who has actually been there trying to work this through with the ATF and reps, putting his own time and money on the line not to mention his entire business, involved with organizations in constant contact with ATF and will fight for our rights, not just make 'statements' on it.... i.e. not just some YouTuber looking for clicks.

 

[Gilly19]

Mo, that video is 45 minutes. Would you please give us the summary?

 

[MoRivera]

Mo, that video is 45 minutes. Would you please give us the summary?

He gives the history of the brace (which he invented), how ATF approved then flip-flopped on it, how they acted as the puppets of administrations, and what lies ahead for the company/future of braces. It's an interesting listen if you can find the time...like on the can.

Despite the length of the video, it's actually one of the clearer and more concise discussions on this whole thing, coming from someone who has actually been involved with ATF as well as spoken with congressmen over it from their (braces) inception.

 

[Gilly19]

I still say that all of the a-holes who blatantly posted videos while shouldering braces accelerated all of this. Personally, I never thought it would last, but the brazen dumb-a's looking for clicks made it happen faster.

 

[MoRivera]

I still say that all of the a-holes who blatantly posted videos while shouldering braces accelerated all of this. Personally, I never thought it would last, but the brazen dumb-a's looking for clicks made it happen faster.

But it was bound to happen....why the heck should we all hide from exercising our rights, and according to law doing it legally? Did we 'poke the bear' by exposing their absurdity? You bet. Again, personally I'm glad this is coming to a head sooner than later. Otherwise it would just be more pedantic and meaningless restrictions, and more work-arounds that would continually prove how stupid they were. We've been doing this dumb dance for long enough, there's no going back now.

 

[MoRivera]

I still say that all of the a-holes who blatantly posted videos while shouldering braces accelerated all of this. Personally, I never thought it would last, but the brazen dumb-a's looking for clicks made it happen faster.

But I know how you feel as well. Example..the PSA AKV, which is a 9mm AK47 made by Palmetto State Armory...is very easy to bump-fire. So you have a lot of owners posting vids of them bump-firing this gun just held normally on the shoulder...and it looks like, yep, a machine gun. Just emptying full 35-rd magazines in seconds. Technically it's not illegal, but it's like "Dude....what are you doing...?"

 

[sagerat]

Waiting for the American with Disabilities Act (ADA) to be used to rightly bludgeon the ATF.

 

[hauki]

Waiting for the American with Disabilities Act (ADA) to be used to rightly bludgeon the ATF.

There may be provisions for someone with a medically certified disability. Just like provisions for a bow hunter with a disability to use a crossbow.

 

[phlyers13]

I still say that all of the a-holes who blatantly posted videos while shouldering braces accelerated all of this. Personally, I never thought it would last, but the brazen dumb-a's looking for clicks made it happen faster.

You sure seem really proud of yourself. Congrats, you were right all along., Lets everyone pat Gilly19 on the back. Nevermind the unconstitutional ATF, who are truly the ones to blame for all of this. Lets blame law abiding gun owners. You are a true asset to the 2 A community.

 

[Gilly19]

Waiting for the American with Disabilities Act (ADA) to be used to rightly bludgeon the ATF.

Great point. The thing about the ADA (as I understand it) is that people are not allowed to ask about your disability or provide proof of disability. If true, then all braces should be legal.

 

[Gilly19]

Lets blame law abiding gun owners.

While I get your point, the ATF published rules (which are constitutional under the executive branch, so far) saying that braces are "good" as long as you don't shoulder them. So I'm not blaming law-abiding gun owners. I'm blaming the people who poked the sleeping bear.

I know a lot of people disagree with me, and that's fine. This is just my opinion. Braces were always too good to last, and some people (and I get them) think it's time for a fight.

 

[MoRivera]

While I get your point, the ATF published rules (which are constitutional under the executive branch, so far) saying that braces are "good" as long as you don't shoulder them. So I'm not blaming law-abiding gun owners. I'm blaming the people who poked the sleeping bear.

They didn't publish any rules, they responded in a letter to SB Tactical...then reversed it in a following letter that said it was okay to shoulder them. You should really watch the vid when you get some time, as to what 'motivated' them to pursue this more. Quite revealing and insightful. It's the bear's fault.

Breaking News Update: ATF Reversal Letter To SB Tactical -

So here is the letter written by Marvin G. Richardson, Assistant Director of the Enforcement Programs and Services, to Mark Barnes, Esq and SB Tactical. Mark Barnes Esq represented SB Tactical to help the ATF clarify their Open Letter from 2015. Everyone remembers that moment. It happened...

www.thefirearmblog.com

Was it pushed...heck yeah. But it was pushed legally.

 

[Gilly19]

You are correct. I should have said "guidance" instead of rules....that's the word I was looking for. Everyone relied upon that guidance, so I can see how - for a period of time - shouldering would be common. I will watch the video....but these days, 45 minutes is a high cost. That's why I loved Cliff Notes in the 80s.

 

[MoRivera]

You are correct. I should have said "guidance" instead of rules....that's the word I was looking for. Everyone relied upon that guidance, so I can see how - for a period of time - shouldering would be common. I will watch the video....but these days, 45 minutes is a high cost. That's why I loved Cliff Notes in the 80s.

But do you see that they reversed their 'guidance' and said we can shoulder? That has stayed until today. Shouldering was legal. And if you can find the Cliffs notes, hopefully you'll come across the condensed part where he explains how videos of yahoos shouldering the guns aren't what instigated this ruling.

I'd tell you what did, but I don't want to ruin the surprise.

 

[sagerat]

You are correct. I should have said "guidance" instead of rules....that's the word I was looking for. Everyone relied upon that guidance, so I can see how - for a period of time - shouldering would be common. I will watch the video....but these days, 45 minutes is a high cost. That's why I loved Cliff Notes in the 80s.

Clif Notes! Man that takes me back to the late ‘70s.

 

[TerminalSigness]

There may be provisions for someone with a medically certified disability. Just like provisions for a bow hunter with a disability to use a crossbow.

I tried to explore this subject, with a member who is a retired Doctor. Wanting to gauge the willingness of Doctors to go up against the system, post ObamaCare and WhuFlu. From the Doctors response, and the pushback he received from other members, he realized that he was in the minority, and complained to the mods. Unfortunately that conversation has been removed.

The gist of his answers, were that he would tell us how the diagnosis/prescription could be worded, but would be unwilling to question the governments position.

In my experience lately, it would be pretty tough to get a Doctor to risk his livelihood, to help protect a constitutional right.

 

[NullNomad]

In my experience lately, it would be pretty tough to get a Doctor to risk his livelihood, to help protect a constitutional right.

pops into thread
Hmmm I wonder what situation recently came about where Doctors were at the center of risking livelihoods and rights…
pops back out of thread reminding everyone that the comment was not a political one…

 

[TerminalSigness]

pops into thread
Hmmm I wonder what situation recently came about we’re Doctors were at the center of risking livelihoods and rights…
pops back out of thread reminding everyone that the comment was not a political one…

That, my friend, is a textbook example of pushing the envelope. 😳

 

[Weez556]

IMHO the whole issue is splitting hairs and a flip flop bait and switch.
So why do they not make a " rule " you can't hold any pistol sideways and throw the bullets out of the pistol as you fire it ?
Probably most criminals that either carry a gun or get a gun with the plan to commit a crime get what ever they can get their hands on. Then ditch it for another gun.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that has thought of some great questions. That would totally make the case of how much of a threat a pistol brace is and if you shoulder it or not.
But the problem is A. Can you get the true answers B. Don't want to educate the bozos on how far off they are.

 

[NullNomad]

But the problem is A. Can you get the true answers B. Don't want to educate the bozos on how far off they are.

C. Do as I say, I know what's best for you.


...finished that for you...