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Any have pistols with both and relate their experience?
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SRT vs QTR
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Whoooo I thought it was just me......I have no clue what a QTR is
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I actually had the same question. I've been thinking on sending a gun or two to Burke and wondered if there was any valid practical reason to switch my SRT to the QTR trigger system. Thanks for asking south. Hope some response come around. I love the SRT triggers on my sigs, but there appears to be some perks to the QTR.
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From the Sig Armorer's web site:
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So the reset SA is not as short on the QTR as it is on the SRT? DIdn't realize that before. I love the SRT. May need to just consider the carry action job on my M11-A1.
"QTR features reduced take-up by nearly 50% in Single Action mode"
I recently installed an SRT in my P227 Nitron and now have virtually no take-up on SA (to Me)
I feel the reset and am at the wall or so it feels. I wonder if different models feel different SRT wise
I recently installed an SRT in my P227 Nitron and now have virtually no take-up on SA (to Me)
I feel the reset and am at the wall or so it feels. I wonder if different models feel different SRT wise
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QTR is far better that the SRT. Had I known about Burke and his trigger work, I would have bought the least expensive P227 they make, and then had him work his magic. I think he probably threw my SRT in the trash!!
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Edit to replace a couple of the "lost" photos due to the Photobucket "rip-off", per a member's request. Sorry I don't have all of them.
Well I doubt Robert threw away your SIG SRT in the trash, he sells the SRT installed for $100.
Keep in mind that I recommend TheSigArmorer (TSA) and often too. If I did not do my own work, he's the guy I'd use, no question.
Let's talk first about DA slack or pre-travel, this being the distance one must pull or move the trigger aft before anything worthwhile happens, i.e. wasted motion. The "worthwhile" being the resistance goes from ounces to about 8 pounds or more pull as the hammer starts to cock. Two ways to accomplish this trick - install a trigger or modify existing trigger to add a forward stop. I only know of one such trigger, WatchFan1's, and I don't know if he's marketing or offering it for sale yet - good idea though, and arguably easier to make than my "cam" stop shown below.
The other way is to add an internal stop for the trigger bar - as the trigger moves forward, the trigger bar moves aft until it hits the hammer pivot pin. So adding a stop on the hammer pivot pin stops the TB early, as shown below, first is my "cam" stop, second picture is the stop TSA sells.
Note that either of the above only affect DA pre-travel, they work in an identical fashion to move the at rest trigger back. An added benefit is the finger opening in front of the trigger is larger, and this helps accommodate gloves etc. If you compare your gun's trigger angle or position to the next picture, you should be able to see the "improvement".
The little black "button" on the backside of the trigger is the overtravel or post travel stop. Made of 1/8" black Delrin rod, so it won't mar the frame, and simply pressed into a .2" deep hole drilled in the backside of the trigger. The trigger overtravel adds much to the SA trigger feel and further reduces the SRT kit's already short reset.
Disclaimer - I do not make the above shown parts for sale.
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Thanks for the feedback and info. Robert just called me with my pistol in hand. He said the QTR would not only reduce the take up in both double action and single action, but also the reset would be shorter than the SRT. Sounds good so that's what I went with. I'll check it out in about three weeks when I have it in hand
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Sig Classic Series DA/SA Flat Trigger with SRT and with QTR
Bumper is accurate and I will shed some more light on a new alternative and comparison.
I am the Armorer for WatchFan1's trigger. It has both pre-travel and over-travel elimination built in. Production just began this month. I have the fourth and last generation prototype in my P226 Enhanced Elite that has the Short Reset Trigger action in it. With our flat trigger installed in my aforementioned pistol and custom fit to it (as they will be custom fit to all pistols) my reset is phenomenally short, in the .080" range. WatchFan1 has the QTR in his P226 and the Reset with our flat trigger is even LESS than with the SRT (less than .080"). Robert has a 3rd generation prototype flat trigger in one of his pistols and has endorsed it.
Bumper is accurate and I will shed some more light on a new alternative and comparison.
I am the Armorer for WatchFan1's trigger. It has both pre-travel and over-travel elimination built in. Production just began this month. I have the fourth and last generation prototype in my P226 Enhanced Elite that has the Short Reset Trigger action in it. With our flat trigger installed in my aforementioned pistol and custom fit to it (as they will be custom fit to all pistols) my reset is phenomenally short, in the .080" range. WatchFan1 has the QTR in his P226 and the Reset with our flat trigger is even LESS than with the SRT (less than .080"). Robert has a 3rd generation prototype flat trigger in one of his pistols and has endorsed it.
Not 100% true!
The "QTR reset being about 50% of the SRT" is not 100% true. I have had pistols come into my shop where I remove the SRT and install my QTR and the reset is actually shorter than the SRT. It seems to depend on the particular pistol. Generally, though, it is not quite as short as the SRT. However, we remove a majority of the SA pre-travel so the trigger basically stops its forward motion at the reset point (plus a little).
The QTR also has another advantage; it maintains the firing pin safety block aspect of the standard SIG trigger, when fired. As you know, the standard Sig trigger disconnector resets the safety lever on the slides reward motion, allowing the firing pin block to recapture the firing pin when the slide returns. Not so with the SRT; the safety lever holds the firing pin block up when the slide returns, until you release the trigger. Generally this isn't too much of an issue, but if something, like worn parts, causes the hammer to jar loose when the slide returns, you can get another Bang or two, or... You get my point.
Have a great day,
Gerry from Total Automation.
The "QTR reset being about 50% of the SRT" is not 100% true. I have had pistols come into my shop where I remove the SRT and install my QTR and the reset is actually shorter than the SRT. It seems to depend on the particular pistol. Generally, though, it is not quite as short as the SRT. However, we remove a majority of the SA pre-travel so the trigger basically stops its forward motion at the reset point (plus a little).
The QTR also has another advantage; it maintains the firing pin safety block aspect of the standard SIG trigger, when fired. As you know, the standard Sig trigger disconnector resets the safety lever on the slides reward motion, allowing the firing pin block to recapture the firing pin when the slide returns. Not so with the SRT; the safety lever holds the firing pin block up when the slide returns, until you release the trigger. Generally this isn't too much of an issue, but if something, like worn parts, causes the hammer to jar loose when the slide returns, you can get another Bang or two, or... You get my point.
Have a great day,
Gerry from Total Automation.
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I LOVE the info in this thread.
I was thinking of going with the QTR trigger as well, but was wondering if there is a different shape of the actual trigger when compared to the SRT. What I mean is that the SRT in my new p220 is thin and sorta sharp at the tip and can be a little aggravating. Is the QTR a little better rounded there?
Do I need to think of having Mr Burke do a package on an old style Sig trigger instead?
I was thinking of going with the QTR trigger as well, but was wondering if there is a different shape of the actual trigger when compared to the SRT. What I mean is that the SRT in my new p220 is thin and sorta sharp at the tip and can be a little aggravating. Is the QTR a little better rounded there?
Do I need to think of having Mr Burke do a package on an old style Sig trigger instead?
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The short reach trigger, what you are referring to is not the same as the short reset trigger. You can have the standard trigger, the part your finger pulls, and still have the SRT, short reset trigger or the QTR.
I am having Robert put in the QTR and change out the short reach trigger for the standard.
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I am having Robert put in the QTR and change out the short reach trigger for the standard.
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I agree with GerryR.
There's another potential problem I've found on a couple of older guns when installing the SRT kit (short reset). And that is the safety lever may not push up the firing pin block high enough to completely clear the firing pin. On one P229, it would not unblock at all.
It's a good idea to check the FP unblock point after installing the SRT kit. You can do this by using a split popsicle stick or similar to push on the back of the firing pin with gun cocked, then pull trigger back until it stages against the sear - ideally the FP should unblock at this point, but I haven't found any that do. With your third hand, hold the hammer so it doesn't go forward and continue to pull trigger slowly (while still pushing on the back of the FP) to see if the FP block releases before the sear does. Again, it should.
Making new "high lift" safety levers out of 4130 steel (the slightly larger little divot on the backside of the long leg is where the lever stops against the hammer pivot, this deeper divot allows the safety lever to drop down a bit more for clearance when removing the slide - still have to follow SIG's amended procedure to always decock and the slide reaches the in-battery point going forward for removal. And decock before replacing slide too - let the slide cock the hammer as it's installed on the frame. This procedure maximizes clearance and prevents undue stress and wear on parts.
There's another potential problem I've found on a couple of older guns when installing the SRT kit (short reset). And that is the safety lever may not push up the firing pin block high enough to completely clear the firing pin. On one P229, it would not unblock at all.
It's a good idea to check the FP unblock point after installing the SRT kit. You can do this by using a split popsicle stick or similar to push on the back of the firing pin with gun cocked, then pull trigger back until it stages against the sear - ideally the FP should unblock at this point, but I haven't found any that do. With your third hand, hold the hammer so it doesn't go forward and continue to pull trigger slowly (while still pushing on the back of the FP) to see if the FP block releases before the sear does. Again, it should.
Making new "high lift" safety levers out of 4130 steel (the slightly larger little divot on the backside of the long leg is where the lever stops against the hammer pivot, this deeper divot allows the safety lever to drop down a bit more for clearance when removing the slide - still have to follow SIG's amended procedure to always decock and the slide reaches the in-battery point going forward for removal. And decock before replacing slide too - let the slide cock the hammer as it's installed on the frame. This procedure maximizes clearance and prevents undue stress and wear on parts.
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Exactly what I wanted. Thank you.
Mr Burke reworked my 229 Legion with had a horrible trigger. Heavy gritty DA pill and a SA that would drop at different points of travel. Anyhow, I had Robert do a carry package and QTR.
I also have an older 229 with SIGS AEP and SRT. The DA pull is about the same, with each weapon. The SA pull "averages" the same for both systems. The BIG difference is in the resets from Da to SA. The SRT is short, damn short, and you have to really concentrate to feel the reset itself. If not super careful one will double or triple tap. With the QTR the reset may be a tad longer, but, and it is a big but, you can actually feel the reset. This I like. Along with the fact that the original safety features are intact, I feel this setup is much superior. BTW, i forgot to mention, initial take-up is nonexistent. Super happy with his work.
I also have an older 229 with SIGS AEP and SRT. The DA pull is about the same, with each weapon. The SA pull "averages" the same for both systems. The BIG difference is in the resets from Da to SA. The SRT is short, damn short, and you have to really concentrate to feel the reset itself. If not super careful one will double or triple tap. With the QTR the reset may be a tad longer, but, and it is a big but, you can actually feel the reset. This I like. Along with the fact that the original safety features are intact, I feel this setup is much superior. BTW, i forgot to mention, initial take-up is nonexistent. Super happy with his work.
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Well I just sent two to Robert Burke for trigger work. My P239SAS had the Sig CS AEP done. Trigger is smooth but is still pulling at 10 lb 7 oz DA & 3 lb 11 oz SA. So Mr. Burke is doing his carry level work on it.
I also have a new M11-A1 that comes in at 11 lb 9 oz DA & 5 lb 7 oz SA and is really rough. So I asked him to install the QTR and add the carry action work. Anxious to see the difference in the SRT and the QTR.
Really excited to test drive them both when they get back. Then eventually I'll decide which way to go on my 229 Legion (10lb 1oz DA/4lb 6oz SA).
I also have a new M11-A1 that comes in at 11 lb 9 oz DA & 5 lb 7 oz SA and is really rough. So I asked him to install the QTR and add the carry action work. Anxious to see the difference in the SRT and the QTR.
Really excited to test drive them both when they get back. Then eventually I'll decide which way to go on my 229 Legion (10lb 1oz DA/4lb 6oz SA).
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