SIG Talk banner
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, just picked up a 220 Hunter in 10mm with kryptek finish. I'm was looking forward to mounting an RMR of some sort on it, so I contacted SIG. I was told that because my 220 hunter has adjustable rear sights, that my only options for mounting a mini reflex are to have the slide milled, have a custom adapter plate made, or use a bridge mount attached to the bottom rail. The bridge mount is out of the question, solely because I purchased this gun as a work horse. It will accompany me to grizzly country for elk and moose hunts, as well as be used for a multitude of other tasks I plan on asking if it, all from within a holster. So, my only two options are for slide milling or custom plate manufacture. So, first question is, why can a fixed rear sight sig easily be fitted with an adapter plate, as opposed to an adjustable rear sight? According to schematics, the dovetail machining is the same on a 226 as a 220, or any other sig with fixed sights one can conjure up. The only problem I can foresee is the placement of the dovetail milling on the slide are in slightly different locations? And after having contacted Trijicon with a few questions regarding their mini reflex series, the did give me contact info for a machinist making custom adapter plates, but this option is only nominally cheaper than having the slide milled. Any one else have any other information on an adapter for the rear dovetail of an adjustable sight 220?
 

·
Resident Armorer Premium Member
Joined
·
14,048 Posts
TwoGuns, welcome to Sig Talk from the southwest corner of Indiana.
In reference to your adapter plate problem, you need to realize that only a very small portion of Sigs manufactured have this adjustable rear sight. Aftermarket vendors, to be profitable, have to go where they at least have a possibility of recouping their investment. When you start with the small number of this model, and then figure only a small percentage of those will have owners that will want a red dot sight. Then you have to take into consideration all of the various red dot sights available, which it seems all have propriety mounting patterns, you begin to see the problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you for the warm welcomes.
@willard- yes, you've detailed the problem. As have I. We can both agree that it is a problem. I'm simply asking if anyone has a solution to this specific problem, that has worked for them, other than sending my 1500$ handgun slide out to be altered from original, or find a reasonably priced manufacturer of a custom dovetail plate, the adapter plates for different sighting systems are readily available. Don't get me wrong, I agree that if you're going to do something, do it right. I'm just trying to figure out a simple, non invasive, economical solution after having already spent well over 2000$ on a handgun and sighting system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
...and no it does fit. The dovetail on the gun is MUCH larger than the mail dovetail on the mount.

All Sig P220s are not the same. :-/

 

·
Resident Armorer Premium Member
Joined
·
14,048 Posts
wpbo5l, I am not sure, but that may be an LPA adjustable rear sight. If Sig could confirm that, you may check and see if EGW makes an adapter for an LPA dovetail, which may work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,612 Posts
All the LPA sights I've seen have set screws to hold them on. I don't remember who makes the adjustable sights on the SIGs.

Here is a pic of an LPA sight on my Remington R1 10mm long slide. You can see the set screws on each side of the sight.


 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
18,517 Posts
The dovetails are different on SIG P-series handguns that have fixed sights vs those with the adjustable sights. This has already been discovered with the attempted application of the Docter sight mount.

I own several red dots with a few mounted to handguns. A couple are mounted using the Docter (or similar) dovetail mount and a couple on milled slides. I can share my thoughts on the differences of the two methods, both pro and con, to hopefully help you make an informed decision.

Using the Docter style mount (if one is available for the SIG adjustable rear sights) one huge benefit is that the gun essentially stays in the original form. Nothing permanent is done to the gun, depending on how you mount the plate, so the weapon can be brought back to original condition upon possible sale of the weapon. There are a few counterpoints, however. First, your rear dovetail is now being used, making the addition of rear suppressor sights impossible. Also, with the red dot sitting higher on the slide, you need a much taller front sight to be visible through the red dot viewing window. Dave Dawson at Dawson Precision has fabricated a couple of tall front sights for me for this application, but he is only willing to go so high, which is certainly not optimal for the application. Having a visible front sight is good but would be much more usable for a backup use if it were higher. In addition, using merely the rear dovetail to mount the red dot does not, IMHO, provide a secure mount for the red dot to the slide. Due to the forces imparted on the red dot during slide cycling, there is considerable movement of the red dot/mount as the slide cycles, which I believe will cause early failures of either the mount or red dot. I have drilled and tapped holes in the slide at the front of the mount to firmly secure the mount to the slide to help minimize, if not eliminate, this minute about of flopping about as the slide cycles. This negates the advantage of keeping the slide in original condition, but does bring the weapon to a usable condition for a weapon considered to be a work horse vs a range toy.

For a weapon deemed a work horse, I believe the only way to go is to mill the slide for the red dot you will be mounting. This gives the most secure mounting of the device to the slide, keeps the rear dovetail available for rear suppressor sights and keeps the profile of the red dot lower, allowing the use of lower suppressor sights, both front and rear, as back up iron sights, which I believe any red dot should have.

There are several parties that provide this service, Suarez has done mine. I hear complaints about Suarez, I've had zero issues with anything Suarez has ever done for me. Hope this helps a little bit.
 

·
Resident Armorer Premium Member
Joined
·
14,048 Posts
GBIA, not that it matters so much as to "who" made the sight, as to if it uses a "standard pattern" "cut", such as in the past, with 1911 adjustable sights, and the Bomar BMCS sight cuts, which established a "standard" that other sight manufactures used.

EGW shows a mount, that is supposed to fit an "LPA" cut slide. In examples I have found on the "net", shows difference with the Bomar, of basically location of the "elevation" screw. In the case of the example I found there the "set screws" to snug up dovetail are under the elevation "leaf", and not exposed, as the Remington you have, does.

I guess the width, depth and angle of the dovetail would be the determining factor.

This is their offering: Optima/JP Mount for LPA: EGW Gun Parts
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
18,517 Posts
All Sig P220s are not the same. :-/
This is not limited to the P220. It is based on which rear sights are installed on the weapon. If the SIG P-series handgun has factory adjustable rear sights on it, the dovetail is different than the dovetail used with the fixed rear sights. In the recent past, SIG offered the Elite Dark model on a few varieties. This rear dovetail was the same as that on the P220's that have come out recently, predominately 10mm versions, with the adjustable rear sights. In the past, Gray Guns offered a fixed rear sight to replace this adjustable rear sight, I don't believe this a available any longer from GGI.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,612 Posts
GBIA, not that it matters so much as to "who" made the sight, as to if it uses a "standard pattern" "cut", such as in the past, with 1911 adjustable sights, and the Bomar BMCS sight cuts, which established a "standard" that other sight manufactures used.

EGW shows a mount, that is supposed to fit an "LPA" cut slide. In examples I have found on the "net", shows difference with the Bomar, of basically location of the "elevation" screw. In the case of the example I found there the "set screws" to snug up dovetail are under the elevation "leaf", and not exposed, as the Remington you have, does.
Understood.

I had not seen an adjustable rear sight that fit an LPA cut that wasn't an LPA sight. :D

I just didn't think that the cut on the P220 Hunter was an LPA sight cut. But I could be wrong.

I guess the width, depth and angle of the dovetail would be the determining factor.

...
Right.


The LPA and BOMAR cuts differ in elevation screw position and dovetail position relative to the "pseudo-cylinder" where the windage screw is located.

Here is a side-look of the LPA sight on the R1 Hunter.





EDIT: I believe that the P220 Hunter is a Kensight (BOMAR cut).

 
  • Like
Reactions: Sunmoon

·
Resident Armorer Premium Member
Joined
·
14,048 Posts
wpbo5l, suggest you remove your rear sight, and try to take measurements of your current dovetail and other milled cuts of your rear sight.

See how it compares to the dimensions GBIA has provided. The distance to the breechface isn't as critical, as is the center of the dovetail, forward to the edge of the milled cut, which should be .6", if my math skills haven't degraded. From the looks of the EGW mount, as long as it doesn't overhang the rear of the slide too much, you should be all right. If it doesn't match the LPA cut, you can google "Bomar Sight Cut" and find their specifications. EGW makes a mount for that also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Thanks folks.

I called Sig today. They are as confused as I am. They originally said that I had to order the Romeo1 with the "multiple handgun adapter plate". I believe this is the plate that includes many dovetails including the Bomar and Kensight compatible cutouts.

But they came back and said they had made a mistake and that would not work on the Hunter.

As much as I would like (love) to have a reflex red dot on this gun, I'm not interested in milling it out or drilling holes to accomplish that at this time.

I appreciate all the feedback and help. Let's see what Sig comes up with later in the summer when they finally release the Romeo1 for general retail sales.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
I almost forgot...

When I spoke to Sig today, they said they would be coming out with a milled replacement slide for the Hunter in order to mount a Romeo1 directly to the slide with no mount.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It's hard to believe that you and I are the only two sig owners that have encountered this problem with a 220 hunter, and that no solution exists other than to have the slide milled.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
It's hard to believe that you and I are the only two sig owners that have encountered this problem with a 220 hunter, and that no solution exists other than to have the slide milled.
Some of the problem may be that there are so few Hunters out there that no one has taken time to put the combination together yet. I am disappointed that Sig's solution is to replace the slide with a milled one they will be selling. I'm guessing the slides are going to expensive.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top