[secretsquirrelMJ]

Don't take this the wrong way but the feeling I get from your question is you're worried about the RSO asking for paperwork that you don't have for an illegal SBR. If this is the case, best to keep quiet about it and only shoot it on the farm or ya know make it legal.

If I'm wrong I sincerely apologize but it just feels like an odd question. If you had a legal SBR or suppressor you would have the proper paperwork and wouldn't be concerned if you were asked for it.

I wouldn't worry about shouldering the pistol brace. I have yet to hear of someone getting in trouble for doing it.

 

[Steve40th]

Just make a copy of the stamp, put it in the grip storage. But, ask before you shoot what ammo you are required to use, as many ranges dont let you use your own..

 

[bumper]

Never ever shoulder and fire a AR pistol with arm brace, that isn't tax stamped, in front of anyone you ain't married to (and then only if she or he signs a non-disclosure agreement and submits a refundable deposit of at least 10 grand). You can put your cheek against the brace, but not your shoulder.

In a home defence situation, if you use that pistol and are so unfortunate as to have to shoot an intruder, and he's only wounded. You need to ask him if he saw you shoulder the weapon. If he says yes, go ahead and shoot him again.

 

[Steve40th]

If a gun is SBR'd, why cant you shoot it like an AR Rifle, if stamp has been approved?

 

[secretsquirrelMJ]

Never ever shoulder and fire a AR pistol with arm brace, that isn't tax stamped, in front of anyone you ain't married to (and then only if she or he signs a non-disclosure agreement and submits a refundable deposit of at least 10 grand). You can put your cheek against the brace, but not your shoulder.

In a home defence situation, if you use that pistol and are so unfortunate as to have to shoot an intruder, and he's only wounded. You need to ask him if he saw you shoulder the weapon. If he says yes, go ahead and shoot him again.

Very popular youtube gun channels shoulder these pistol braces all the time. No one is going to jail over it.

Later on in the video, Chad shoulders the weapon. No black helicopters have come to get him. In every video I've seen them shoot weapons with pistol braces, they shoulder them at some point.

We need to stop asking the damn ATF for opinion letters. That is how this entire "don't shoulder it" thing got started in the first place.

 

[bumper]

Later on in the video, Chad shoulders the weapon. No black helicopters have come to get him. In every video I've seen them shoot weapons with pistol braces, they shoulder them at some point.

We need to stop asking the damn ATF for opinion letters. That is how this entire "don't shoulder it" thing got started in the first place.[/QUOTE]

If someone wants to shoulder and fire a pistol with hand brace (not a tax stamped SBR), that's their business. The BATFE may be screwed up, but they get to enforce the law as it is presently stated. I would not shoulder and fire a pistol in a youtube video to prove a point, then listen for the choppers. In the current environment, the risk may be minimal, but it's still pretty dumb to hang one's butt out for no sensible reason.

If one wants to use their pistol shouldered in the defense of their home, that's one thing. Flaunting it at the range is another

Nobody is defending the asinine inquiry letters that brought about the dumb opinion letters. I agree SBRs and suppressors should not be NFA weapons.

 

[Mills]

I am a ro and not an atf agent.

If someone shoulders a sig brace or uses a suppressed weapon my only concern is safety.

I don't ask for paperwork, not my job.

Personally I would not do it at a range . There are all sorts of federal agents that shoot there, most do not even remotely look like what you might expect.

So be smart , your choice.

 

[Eldos1]

If someone is on video shouldering a brace, it is like when the early CO pot growers where on the TV showing there grow house and wondered why they got raided by the feds the next day.

old saying: "The tall nail gets the hammer"

 

[LittleTex]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I asked because Im looking into getting a Kriss Vector pistol. As i stated in my original post, i agree that these regulations are stupid, but like most of you im not interested in being fined or imprisoned. I appreciate all of the input.

 

[CCC]

My range has a very large percentage of LEO members, and quite a few are ATF. And I agree, you would not know who they were just looking.

The RO never asks for stamps (they do state in the range rules that you must have a copy of the stamp for any NFA item you bring in the shop / range area, but again, I've never seen it be asked for), but if you shoulder a brace, you are gone for good. There are range videos kept for legal issues, which puts them at risk of having them pulled by LE.

Just for general practice, you should have a photocopy of your stamp together with the item anytime it leaves your property.

 

[completekneebiter]

This, exactly this

My range has a very large percentage of LEO members, and quite a few are ATF. And I agree, you would not know who they were just looking.

The RO never asks for stamps (they do state in the range rules that you must have a copy of the stamp for any NFA item you bring in the shop / range area, but again, I've never seen it be asked for), but if you shoulder a brace, you are gone for good. There are range videos kept for legal issues, which puts them at risk of having them pulled by LE.

Just for general practice, you should have a photocopy of your stamp together with the item anytime it leaves your property.

I keep a laminated copy with each of mine inside the grip.

 

[boris95]

bumper, ATF had come out with a memo addressing shouldering a brace. Very soon after the came out with a second memo stating that they cannot tell someone how to shoot your pistol with a brace. There is not an issue

I found the letter. Trying to get it here

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...a-look-at-shot-and-a-look-at-the-road-so-far/

 

[Mills]

But that doesn't mean it's ok with a SBR, of course I might be wrong.

Shouldering a gun makes it a rifle and w the sbr makes it nfa, right ?

 

[bumper]

bumper, ATF had come out with a memo addressing shouldering a brace. Very soon after the came out with a second memo stating that they cannot tell someone how to shoot your pistol with a brace. There is not an issue.

I'm afraid it is currently an issue (maybe).

It has been in a state of flux. The latest I can find is:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/can-legally-shoulder-sig-arm-brace/

 

[boris95]

Do you have a date on that letter? I read that also.

I thought that the one I posted was the end of it?

If there is current info, then I must retract my statement. Not trying to get into a pissing match, just trying to obtain information.
I am a firearms instructor and want the most accurate information. I don't want to be passing along bogus info.

 

[7.62Kolectr]

Very popular youtube gun channels shoulder these pistol braces all the time. No one is going to jail over it.

Later on in the video, Chad shoulders the weapon. No black helicopters have come to get him. In every video I've seen them shoot weapons with pistol braces, they shoulder them at some point.

We need to stop asking the damn ATF for opinion letters. That is how this entire "don't shoulder it" thing got started in the first place.

That's a shockwave blade which does not extend any further than the tube/buffer tube it is attached to. The Sig brace does.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.thet...blade-ar-pistol-brace-but-adds-a-warning/amp/

You can place the blade on your cheek without it touching your shoulder and be fine.
Once you or he shoulders that shockwave he has created an SBR or title II weapon in theory. Just because he does it on YouTube doesn't make it legal or tell you whether or not he got a visit from atf later.

First: NFA paperwork is a confidential tax document. Only an ATF or Treasury agent can legally ask to see it. NO RSO has the right or ability to ask for it. If they do kindly inform them of the above. If the RSO wants to call an ATF agent to come see your stamp or be a Richard Cranium and deny you access to the range based on your response that's his perogative.
To shoulder a Sig pistol brace is according to ATF now illegal. Do you wanna be the test case? Just because nobody has been arrested for it doesn't mean it's not going to happen. Everyone speeds but not everyone gets pulled over.

Second: it's not wise to advise people to break the law as it is now written because nobody else has gotten in trouble for doing so.

Lastly: of all the times I've been to multiple ranges with my SBRs and suppressors no RSO has even blinked an eye or inquired about it. Nor did I when I was one. I was more so concerned for the safety of the shooter and others around him.

 

[secretsquirrelMJ]

Misuse of an item as intended doesn't make someone a criminal. Is bump firing an AK or an AR a violation of the NFA? Certainly not. The opinion letter you linked to basically says one is free to do as they please. The ATF is asking kindly that you don't shoulder the new pistol blade but say nothing about the Sig brace. Asking kindly isn't a law and certainly isn't an arrestable offense.

I am so tired of these administrations making up news laws. They are not following the intent of congress.

 

[7.62Kolectr]

Misuse of an item as intended doesn't make someone a criminal. Is bump firing an AK or an AR a violation of the NFA? Certainly not. The opinion letter you linked to basically says one is free to do as they please. The ATF is asking kindly that you don't shoulder the new pistol blade but say nothing about the Sig brace. Asking kindly isn't a law and certainly isn't an arrestable offense.

I am so tired of these administrations making up news laws. They are not following the intent of congress.

A Sig pistol brace was never intended to be used as a shoulder stock. That's why it has a hole in it for you to put your hand thru. ATF reclassified it and specifically said to not shoulder it. If you misuse it you are according to them a criminal. While I and you may think it's silly it is still now no bueno.
Shouldering a pistol blade is the same. If you'd like you can join me at the next Threat Focused course where several LEOs will be alongside me, shoulder either one and see what happens.

I'm not being rude. To me an 11.5 inch barrel rifle is no more dangerous than a 16 inch one. Yet one requires a stamp and registration while the other does not. Till that changes I will abide by their silly rules and laws.


Here's the current opinion letter from ATF.

https://www.atf.gov/file/11816/download

Any person who intends to use a handgun stabilizing brace as a shoulder stock on a pistol (having a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a smooth bore firearm with a barrel under 18 inches in length) must first file an ATF Form 1 and pay the applicable tax because the resulting firearm will be subject to all provisions of the NFA.

 

[Mills]

A Sig pistol brace was never intended to be used as a shoulder stock. That's why it has a hole in it for you to put your hand thru. ATF reclassified it and specifically said to not shoulder it. If you misuse it you are according to them a criminal. While I and you may think it's silly it is still now no bueno.
Shouldering a pistol blade is the same. If you'd like you can join me at the next Threat Focused course where several LEOs will be alongside me, shoulder either one and see what happens.

I'm not being rude. To me an 11.5 inch barrel rifle is no more dangerous than a 16 inch one. Yet one requires a stamp and registration while the other does not. Till that changes I will abide by their silly rules and laws.


Here's the current opinion letter from ATF.

https://www.atf.gov/file/11816/download

Thank you for the posting.