SIG Talk banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I bought my .40 Legion P229 brand new had to wait about 2 weeks to get it in and when I received it I was in love right away. Getting ready for break in I disassembled the gun to apply a little oil and grease in the appropriate areas as I am kind of over the top about taking care of any firearm investment be it a $1100 Legion or a used $300 .22 revolver.

Anyhow I took the brand new never-fired gun apart and was completely amazed at what I saw. Incredible amounts of wear along the guide rails on both the frame as well as the slide, then I looked at what Sig refers to as the HD sear pin and it looked as though they blindfolded a monkey, gave him a hammer and a punch and let him go to town assembling pistols.

I called Sig and sent them 30 or so detailed pictures and they are replacing the gun. I was advised of this very quickly and shipped the gun out the same day, they received mine 17 days ago and counting they tell me they are running short on this model so I am still waiting on a shipment confirmation to get my 2nd new Legion. Hopefully this one comes in looking new rather than it had shot 1000 rounds. I will post just a few pics of what I saw right out of the box brand new. Just out of curiosity I went to the FFL I usually go to and looked at the Legion they had in their case and they let me take the slide off and I found the same pin with bare, chipped metal around it on theirs and it has never been out of the showcase let alone fired.

Bottom line is Sig needs to address the finish issues on the pistols, I have a P238 Spartan with a PVD finish with well over 1,000 rounds and counting through it and it barely looks worn at all. So I think that PVD is a durable coating however on the Legion series they just have not got it quite right.

Am I being to picky about this guys? I will copy the Sig rep's response below this. I am not seeing "Gold anodized protected metal" as he says I am seeing bare metal.

SIG REP:

Joe,

I have to be honest with you. The wear on most of it is normal. However, that sear HD pin does look bad so we can replace the gun. Please keep in mind, as soon as you shoot the new Legion you will see that kind of wear again. Even just racking the slide can cause some of the PVD to wear from the rails. The Frames are fully anodized so it’s still protected. That is actually the gold color you are seeing.

The only thing I need at this point would be the serial number of the gun and the dealer you would like the replacement firearm shipped to.

If you have any questions please let me know.

Thank you.
XXX XXXXXX


I don't think I am being overly critical, I only posted frame pictures here but I can send/post all 30+ I sent to Sig if anyone wants to see all of them.
 

Attachments

· Registered
Joined
·
4,650 Posts
The Legion finish issue has been beat to death here, and will likely not get you a whole lot of favorable responses!

With that said, even if I could afford a Legion, the finish issues and lack of QC would prevent me from paying that kind of money for one as I demand a better gun for my buck! I'm used to the old-school German Sigs where every single one I ever bought were flawless from the box (here is the point where somebody will chime in and tell us how their German/W. German Sig was a piece of garbage, but that was NOT the norm!).

Old-school craftsmanship used to be the norm from Sig-Sauer when they were imported... now it's just a memory.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
16,864 Posts
First, for clarification, the gun was fired before ever left the manufacturer. No Sig is shipped unfired.

Next, whomever the Sig rep was you spoke/emailed with was is incorrect in his statement that "The wear on most of it is normal.". I have to be honest with you - I have Sigs in my safe this very moment that have less wear than what is in your photos.

It is true the design of the Sig Classic Series guns DOES indeed cause wear - especially under the frame rails. However, in a properly greased/lubed gun, it's certainly not that obvious even after hundreds of rounds. Eventually, yes, it will get to looking pretty alarming - but it's really not a huge problem.

I have Sigs with 10's of thousands of rounds that appear pretty round around the edges, loose slides [folded slide models] and do show a lot of wear. They all put bullets exactly where I aim them.

Again though, a NIB P229 should not exhibit that kind of wear - eventually, yes but NIB, no.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Unfavorable responses

I am not looking to beat an already dead dog, 99% of what I read was wear after some type of use. Not brand new straight out of the box wear as well as the bare metal around that pin. I was just curious as I too own a W. German that is flawless and am sure it has been around the block a time or two before I got it and my own experience with PVD on the Spartan P238.

I expect some wear after I use the thing and get it nice and broken in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bronicabill

· Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Let me clarify that I did not fire the weapon, sorry I forgot how specific one needs to be when posting on a forum. To me a gun just purchased from a FFL and never had a round through it from the purchaser could be considered unfired for all intents and purposes. This is why I read posts and never registered until today because I won't get caught up in the this kind of side discussion. I was curious as I have been a Berettta man for years until I bought my first Sig and now I love them and have bought six brand new now and a few used and never saw anything like this out of my new ones.

-Joe
 
  • Like
Reactions: bronicabill

· Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
I have no idea what it was like out of the box as I didnt take the gun apart until about 300 rounds but had mostly the same wear locations. Now with 800 rounds (latest cleaning) the wear has increased in those same spots but not at the same rate, I think it is finally worn in.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well maybe mine would have stayed the same for a long time and never gotten any worse. I'll never know since I shipped it back, I just expect better quality. I compare it to my Emperor Scorpion and the wear I have on it and it's like apples to oranges and I would think that the Scorpion has a less durable coating. Coated guns might be a bad idea especially on ones that have extremely tight tolerances. That said I would have likely kept the gun and been content if it were not for the pin that was beaten on like it was.

Oh well that's life and we shall see how Sig does from here fingers crossed they improve their QC as it pertains to finish I am positive I could have ran 10,000 rounds through it without a problem. Bottom line for me is Sig makes a great weapon that IMHO that can not be matched by some others out there and are held to a higher level of quality.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
23,709 Posts
...Next, whomever the Sig rep was you spoke/emailed with was is incorrect in his statement that "The wear on most of it is normal.". I have to be honest with you - I have Sigs in my safe this very moment that have less wear than what is in your photos.
...
My very first SIG, a P226 with a German made railed frame and US stainless slide (two-tone) still has zero wear on the rails. Those rails are as perfectly-straight and smooth as anything could be machined and they have no wear on them - solid black.

American laborers just do not take pride in their work.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
23,709 Posts
...Bottom line is Sig needs to address the finish issues on the pistols, I have a P238 Spartan with a PVD finish with well over 1,000 rounds and counting through it and it barely looks worn at all. So I think that PVD is a durable coating however on the Legion series they just have not got it quite right.
....

That is a common misconception.

PVD is a process for applying a coating. It doesn't mean that the particular coating is any good. The PVD process also allows the thinnest coating to be applied to an object, thus saving money in the manufacturing process.

Many finishes applied using PVD are good - this isn't one of them.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
7,298 Posts
I remember an older post wherein other members stated that the irregularities around the HD Sear Pin (?) hole were no big deal as long as your slide doesn't catch on it.

Not sure if the advice was right or wrong, though.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sear HD Pin dragging

I can say without question that the slide on my Legion P229 was noticeably harder to move once it got to that "irregular pin" but before contacting hammer. I confirmed this at the local gun shop when taking down and putting their Legion slide back on there was a big difference. Anyways Sig thought it was enough of a problem after just seeing the pictures that they would replace the pistol. So there has to be something to be said for that. The rep stated that was the reason for replacement not the finish wear.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,650 Posts
<<snip>>
American laborers just do not take pride in their work.
I learned that lesson back in 1991 when I went to work for a German company with an office here in the US as a UAV pilot. One of the first tasks I was assigned to in the training process was proving my abilities in building R/C aircraft, which I had done to accolades of the US branch members.

I then went to the main office in Germany just outside of Bonn for more training, and the first thing I was assigned to do was complete construction of an airplane that a German worker had started and never finished, so they could confirm my abilities for themselves. The craftsmanship in that airplane was head-and-shoulders above what I was used to seeing ANYWHERE, and certainly pushed me to MY personal limit!!!

Americans usually make it "good enough". Germans tend to make it "as good as possible"... within reason of course! And the difference is extremely obvious to those of us who remember the old West German and German Sigs, and compare them to what we're getting now from Exeter, NH. We get "good enough" way too often!

Edit to add: Oh, and along those same lines, my brother and I still own my late mother's Marklin (made in Germany) HO-scale electric train she won as a child from a department store in Memphis. The detail and workmanship is impeccable! And yes, it still runs just fine, and it's over 75 years old! All the passenger cars' lights still light up too... :D
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,650 Posts
The pictures do show "normal" wear from firing WITHOUT lube! Someone saved a couple of minutes and a dime's worth of oil at the factory.

Bill
Yep... it was either test-fired while dry, or racked many times while dry! Somebody was too lazy to lube it first!!! :rolleyes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: bumper

· Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Just an update....Today started with bad news from Sig that it was going to be 2 more weeks before they shipped out a new pistol. Then I called the gentleman I have been dealing with on this issue and he said that information was incorrect and in fact the new Legion was boxed up and ready for shipment today to my FFL. I couldn't be happier, 2-3 weeks to me is an eternity while waiting on a new gun to arrive as I am used to walking in and buying on the spot and taking it home.

I will say Sig's customer service right or wrong has been excellent through this situation, far better than I would have expected from a large company such as Sig. I hopefully will be just as happy when the new pistol arrives, one would think they would double check the QC on something being replaced but we will see when it arrives.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Hopefully the rest of the time spent here will be talking about great experiences with the Sig brand and no more issues (one can hope).

Have a great day everyone!

Cheers!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
7,825 Posts
Forget the wear or finish issue. Whatever idiot beat the frame to death trying to install that pin needs to be fired asap. He shouldn't even be allowed to work on Lorcins. That's insane.
Dang! Buy a Dan Wesson 1911 and enjoy artistry in arms....
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9,114 Posts
A retired Marine and LEO that used to work part time at my newest LGS bought a DW Specialist not long ago. Went full-auto on him. :lol:
That doesn't take much misadjustment on some 1911's, as, the sear engagement angle is often close to neutral so that a too light adjustment on the sear spring can give you doubles or full auto without the hassle of a tax stamp :rolleyes: A worn or improperly adjusted sear or hammer hooks can do the same.

What's life without a little excitement now and then??:D


BTW, I have the money in my gun fund piggy back . . . there's no way I'd buy a Legion. They are pretty, they have features, I'm not interested.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Update on this issue.

Here it is 3-8-17 almost a full month has went by and after being told everyday last week that my new pistol would be shipped out that day here I am still being told the same thing by the reps at Sig. I am over this whole situation already, I don't give a damn whether the Legion is as good as it's made out to be there is absolutely NO viable explanation as to why they have not shipped out a replacement pistol yet.

I am being told they are waiting on a "fresh batch" of the P229 Legion .40 to be ready for shipment yet every time I have been at any of the local gun shops or large retailers there are Legions sitting in the display case NIB ready for sale. They did discount a .357 Sig barrel down to $75 for the inconvenience, so that's something at least.

They received my pistol on 2-13-17, I could understand the delay if repairs were being done but this long for a simple replacement? Not impressed by Sig customer service at this point.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top