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Question on NEW Legion P229 9mm for failure to load round/go into battery

6482 Views 12 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  jcmosssr
I have a new Legion P229 9mm and was wondering if anyone else had the same issue I had the first time out.

Typically…I shoot once a week 165 rounds per session. First 15 rounds are my self-defense ammo, Federal 124gr FMJ HST, then 150 rounds of less expensive Speer Lawman 124gr TMJ.

My first 50 rounds went without a hitch…smoothly. Then at around 60 – 70 rounds, as the gun started to dirty up, I felt the first round (as I released the slide) start to catch or stick a little. I could feel that…but no failure to load round/go into battery.

However somewhere between 70 and 165 rounds, I had 5 – 6 failure to load/go into battery and had to hit the back of the slide to get it to load the round. At first, the first 3 times, it was on the first round after releasing the slide, as I got closer to the end of my session and 165 rounds, it started to happen during firing…2 – 3 times for a total of 5 – 6 for the session. It was random and spread out.

It seemed to happen only as the gun got dirtier…NOTHING in the first 50 rounds. Also, it only happened a total of 5 – 6 times.

Cleaned and lubricated her up when I got home.

Second session, 1 week later, I shot 165 rounds (same ammo, same as before) and had zero failure to load/go into battery. Only one time, on initial release of the slide and on my last magazine of the day, did I feel it catch or stick a little, but still loaded the round fine.

Cleaned and lubricated her up when I got home again.

Third session, 1 week later, again shot my 165 rounds as before and ZERO failure to load/go into battery and zero sticking/catching of round. I did, however, feel a very slight difference in smoothness in loading the first round (on initial slide release) when comparing the first magazine to the last one of the day, but I am REALLY, REALLY looking/feeling for it. It does seem to be working itself out…maybe.

Cleaned and lubricated her up, when I got home, a third time. But this time, on loading the gun, I held the slide and SLOWLY let it move forward to see if I could get it to catch/stick in the same spot, as it pushed a round in the chamber, and see where this happened. It was a little tough as you had to go very slow, but I did get it to stick once in the EXACT same spot it was sticking/catching during those first 165 rounds. The slide is between, about, ¼ inch to ½ inch out of battery when it did this…not far at all. And, I was able to take a look inside from the top of the slide and see what was going on. It looked as if the round was sticking right where the rim of the round meets the front face where the firing pin comes out of, and the ejection arm. Each round, kind of, slides up into the chamber as the slide pushes it forward and that small notch at the back of the round fits neatly between the ejection arm and that front face. Not a lot of tolerance there I’m sure. It is like…as the gun got dirty on the face and at the ejection arm…it could stick there until the gun is well broken in and parts are all worn to their expected tolerances. Does that seem logical?

Wanted to know if others have noticed this when shooting that number of rounds on a brand new Legion P229 9mm…or any sig P229? Also, if it is only a break in issue that typically gets better and better as rounds accumulate through use?

I did have the same issue with my Sig P229 Nitron 9mm when it was new as well…but they were spread out more. Say 6 total with maybe 2 on one session…then 1 on the next…until I had a solid 800+ rounds through the gun….then no more of those all the way up to 7000 rounds. Also, since I have had that P229 Nitron in to my gunsmith for its annual cleaning (tore completely down, ultrasonically cleaned). I am up to 2030 rounds without ANY FAILURES.

I have talked with others who have the Legion P229 and they say theirs haven’t had ANY failures what-so-ever. I find that strange…two different P229’s for me. Both having the same issue when new…with the Legion having a couple more of them the first time out.

I am confident with my 1 year old P229 Nitron as a CC gun….and want to have the same confidence with my Legion…thus my questions.

Thanks for any information.
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Interest experience with you new 229s. I've had similar loading failures with P224, but that pistol had several problems and was finally exchanged. As you mention, this sounds like break-in stuff, but I'll offer couple suggestions for ya.

Loading the 1st round on one of SIG's new mags can be a challenge with the strongest of recoil springs. You've probably noticed how difficult it is topping off a new SIG mag, and the slide must overcome that same pressure to load the 1st round. Typically, you'll want to use a slingshot motion to release your slide to give the slide its full energy on loading those top rounds.

Another important consideration for SIG 'P' series pistols is the amount of lube used for range time. I mean, only a light coat of oil is necessary for carry weapons, but that's really not suggested while busting 100+ rounds down range.

Here's a good note with some pics that may help with this perspective.

https://grayguns.com/lubrication-of-sig-sauer-pistol-rails/

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks...

for the response Kansascity45. Funny you should mention that about the tight spring on new magazines. I noticed that too with the extra ones I bought for my first P229. I, literally, took 5 minutes to get that 15th round in two of the 5 new magazines I bought. In fact, the edges would bite hard into the rim of the round if I didn't put TONS of down pressure on the round as I pushed that last one it. Took a good two 165 round sessions to break those in.

However, my new magazines that came with my Legion where good all the way to the 15th round in the magazine. No such issue. Seems to be random with those magazines. Plus, I used older, already broken in magazines when breaking in my new legion that first time out. In addition, almost 1/2 the time it happened when 1/2 through the mag while running it.

As I mentioned, I could, with effort, after cleaning and lubing, get the gun to stick with a round if I very slowly and easily guided the slide in to MAKE it catch to see where there was resistance. AND the only time was right there at the ejection arm...between it and the face plate.

Wondering how long I have to go to simply attribute it to break in for sure....and expect the Legion to be reliable enough to carry. That is my concern. Also, whether I need to bring it into my gunsmith for him to correct the issue...like buffing the face plate, or whatever. Might also be a tight spring on the ejector arm as that, likely, needs to break in as well.

More thoughts welcome.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Fordoche

I run mine as you...with a very light film of Mill-Comm TW25B grease, followed by oil. I clean and lube like this after every outing...once a week. Also, oil on any shinny spots.

The mags I used on its first outing were broken in, older mags. Did not use the new mags. Second and third outings...I used a combination of both broken in mags and the new ones. And the new ones are marked.

As mentioned in original post. First outing out with NEW legion...first 50 rounds...NO failure to feed. As it dirtied up...60+ rounds...felt it start to stick or catch...but NO failure to feed. Between 70+ rounds to 165 rounds 5 - 6 failure to feed starting with 3 on initial release of slide using release. Then toward the end, say 120 rounds to 165...2-3 times while running through magazine.

Second outing...no failure to feeds, same ammo, same 165 rounds, only one feeling round stick a little...toward end of session as gun became dirty.

Third outing...no failure to feed, same ammo, same 165 rounds, did (because I am REALLY looking for it) feel some resistance as it loaded round toward very end of session.

Concern is...want to carry this gun...NEED to know it is 100% reliable...thus my question on whether this is only and likely, simply a break in issue.

Thanks!!!
 

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Am I understanding this correctly? After your third session, a session in which you had zero feed issues through 165 rounds, you went home, cleaned the weapon and then tried manually cycling the rounds through the chamber, slowly and gently controlling the slide forward movement as each round chambers? If that is, in fact, the case, it is not how the weapon is designed to be cycled. The slide should be allowed to slam forward with the full force of the recoil spring when chambering a round. I would write off the failures in your initial range session as new, break in issues for who knows what reason. It seems that the weapon is now operating just fine, I would continue running the gun, get a few hundred more trouble free rounds down the pipe. It should then be considered good to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Malicious

I understand completely that cycling a round into the chamber in the manner I described, very slowly, is NOT the way one should cycle a round. I was using that technique ONLY to help determine where the round may have been getting hung up. AND...it hung up going slowly EXACTLY where it hung up during actual use, in the first session, when the slide is allowed to slam the round into the chamber as it is designed to do (as when releasing the slide with the slide release...and...recoil during operation). I knew this because the distance of the slide out of battery, where the round got hung, in all cases, was the same. So...I was able to look into the top of the slide, when at home, and notice where that round was in the chamber and on the face. It was actually hung up while the rim of the round was going under the ejection arm...and while sliding up the front face of the slide.

I am definitely leaning toward a break-in issue as the resistance/catching/sticking is diminishing as I go through each session, and nonexistent when the gun is cleaned and lubricated. Whether it is the fact that the ejection spring was brand new and stiff, combining with increased friction from gunpowder residue on the face and behind the ejection arm where that rim of the round makes contact, caused the issue...or something else doesn't really matter at this point. Just wanted to know if anyone else has experienced the same...as I have experienced it now with two different P229's, one being a Nitron...the other a Legion, purchased one year apart from each other. AND, from an experts point of view, when the gun would be considered 100% broken in and reliable for CC...which you gave some good direction on.

Will report back once I cross that 800 to 1000 round mark in a couple weeks.

Thanks for your response!!!
 

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Your issue seems odd. It is probably you or something you are doing. Well made guns (especially the Legion) don't get "dirty" after a hundred or so rounds and start having issues. They are made to shoot and shoot and have no issues, none. I clean mine every few thousand rounds and i have no failures to feed of any kind. You need to grease your rails adn don't worry about being sloppy. Look at your gun and see where the wear is. Put grease on those areas and on rails. I use Lucas grease Sig sells. Seems to work. Probably any other good quality gun grease will work just as well.

What you describe with slowly clambering a round is normal. You are not supposed to do this. That is why it fails, rtm. Your failures to go into battery sound like a mag problem or your thumb is impinging on the proper cycling of the slide. Many feed issues are mag problems or improper gun handling. Slowly chambering a round doesn't tell you anything other than you are going to cause a malfunction.

I had the same mag loading issues you describe, my springs were so tight i couldn't get the 14th round in easily. The stiffness of the mags loosened up after about three full 15 round loads were shot through them. I use a mag loader now to save my fingers when i shoot.
 

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I had Sig replace mags under warranty and got the Italy mags and the stress of loading 15...is gone...I had same issue with not going into battery even after new mags... Found it was lazy slide rack...these guns have closer tolerance than my Glock or XD Mod2..and it was my lazy habit from those guns.. causing issue....give it a pull back and LET GO... I greased with Lucas gun grease and got even better
 

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Two things:

1) use more grease on your slide rails, barrel, top of frame. When you put the slide back on the gun, and rack the slide a time or two, lock the slide back and remove any grease accumulated on the rear of the slide etc. Wipe it on the barrel. Close slide. Wipe off any remaining grease. Good.

2) inspect breach face for brass shavings as they are an indicator of problems with the extractor. Inspect a fired case as well, look for gouges or heavy scratches. Remove slide, and barrel from slide. Now manually slide a cartridge base up the breech face as it would move during chambering. As the case moves up, there should by a slight increase in friction as the case rim moves under the extractor claw. Once in position, the cartridge should be held by the extractor claw even with very gentle shaking. If there is significant friction or brass shavings, the extractor may have a burr or may not be moving freely etc.
 

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Another possibility could be dirt under the extractor. I have had a couple of Sigs that were picky about cleaning under the extractor. I use a brush to clean under it when I clean them.
 
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