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Question for an armorer

3965 Views 41 Replies 23 Participants Last post by spredvan, 5 mo ago

Spartan1371

Discussion Starter · 12 mo ago

Hey everyone, I currently own a Sig P365 with about 700 rounds through it, I also carry a M18 for duty. I own a Glock 19 and two Smith and Wesson striker fired pistols so I'm not brand loyal, I use them as a tool for self defense. I recently discovered images on this actual forum and few other places of the Striker assembly in a Sig P365 that had the tail end shear off. This happened to two different pistols, now the reason for my post is for me to try and understand what's going on. On the Sig design, they have the Striker assembly installed with the Firing Pin Block holding onto the leg of the Striker keeping it from going forward and igniting a round until the trigger is pulled. However, the issue I see is that the entire system relies on the tail of the Striker assembly never breaking, and in at least two cases this HAS happened. I have posted the pictures that I found, along with a picture of the part in question circled. This has scared me to the point where I'm currently not carrying the pistol for self defense anymore, if the striker tail breaks off, the Striker is under full tension and will go forward. In contrast to this, S&W designed their Striker assembly with one lug touching the trigger bar and one lug touching the firing pin safety so if one broke the other would hold, and the Glock design has a drop safety lug in the rear of the Striker assembly, and the firing pin block in the front of the safety so if one breaks the other will hold and you don't need to worry about a round going off.

Does anyone have any insight into this? I contacted Sig several days ago but they haven't responded yet.

Is there anything that will stop this from going off, if the Tail breaks as it has in other P365s?

Thank you for any insight, I carry in several different positions and a accidental discharge due to a mechanical failure could obviously be lethal.

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LARSX

· #2 · 12 mo ago (Edited)

There are Youtube videos that address your question with the p365 showing that if the hook shears, the striker's velocity is reduced such that the striker has insufficient momentum to discharge the round. Here is how this is prevented in the p320, (which is done differently). I couldn’t again quickly find p365 video, however there is a Youtube video explaining the secondary design in the p365 striker assembly preventing discharge if the striker hook fails.

Found the video on the p365 striker safeties:

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Spartan1371

Discussion Starter · #3 · 12 mo ago

LARSX said:
There are Youtube videos that address your question with the p365 showing that if the hook shears, the striker's velocity is reduced such that the striker has insufficient momentum to discharge the round. Here is how this is prevented in the p320, (which is done differently). I couldn’t again quickly find the p365 video, however there is a Youtube video explaining the secondary design in the p365 striker assembly preventing discharge if the striker hook fails.

I really appreciate your response, however the video you speak of is from ProTeq who is an engineer and a weapons engineer at that, he did a part 4 follow up video to prove his point and was wrong, he was actually able to fire 3 rounds out of 3 rounds and concluded that if the Tail sheared off it WOULD fire, and then said that there's no evidence it would shear off and then shortly after he posted that video a few people started sharing pictures of their striker tails sheared which isn't hard to believe since they already had striker tip issues as well.

Link to Part 4 is here

Again I appreciate your response and thats why I posted, but it appears the issue is still definitely a safety concern and an engineering flaw. Unless someone has more information that changes this, which I invite since I really like the firearm.

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Andy105

· #4 · 12 mo ago

I think the problem strikers were MIM manufacturer issues in the early versions. The ProTec guy had a hell of a time breaking a current striker with a vise and hammer. I’m not worried about mine. If you’re worried about it, get another gun.

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ClayD

· #5 · 12 mo ago

Way over a million P-365s in service and what you're worried about is pretty much a non-possibility. Just doesn't happen. But yeah, just get rid of it and get something else.

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Spartan1371

Discussion Starter · #6 · 12 mo ago

Andy105 said:
I think the problem strikers were MIM manufacturer issues in the early versions. The ProTec guy had a hell of a time breaking a current striker with a vise and hammer. I’m not worried about mine. If you’re worried about it, get another gun.

It's not debate of either/or, I'm looking for an engineer or someone of knowledge to point out what I'm missing is all, the gun is no longer my CCW off duty as I do not trust that design. I interact with my CCW daily and even though it's a small chance it can happen people still buy a lottery ticket, get bitten by sharks or struck by lightening. There's also no harm in pointing the issue out in either hopes Sig will address it in future generations or possibly save someone from the consequences if the striker fails. There's no really good reason other than making the trigger smoother to design it this way, and I'd rather have a gun that only goes bang when my finger tells it too.

You are 100% correct that people should only carry the weapon they trust. I do want people that do not know much about firearms to see this though before they make a purchase decision. The market is full of great carry options including other Sigs, that are a safer design.

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Spartan1371

Discussion Starter · #7 · 12 mo ago

ClayD said:
Way over a million P-365s in service and what you're worried about is pretty much a non-possibility. Just doesn't happen. But yeah, just get rid of it and get something else.

It HAS happened though...but you're correct best to carry what you trust.

djcomm

· #8 · 12 mo ago

As with ANY manufacturer as a product matures from its release it will undergo modifications, most without advertising, correcting problems found in its earlier releases. For example, Glock is dealing with the G44 problems as of late. Smith and Wesson M&P12 or bodyguard 380 over the past year. I am not confident that the striker issue is a modern problem. That would have to be a complete catastrophic failure defeating the sear AND the striker safety. It is easy to chase yourself out of any carry gun looking at the internet.

Striker fired weapons have never been at the top of my desire for carry but I do carry the P365X appendix from time to time in the summer without reservations. I have full confidence in the platform. Otherwise it is a P229 of sorts.

Hope you find the answers from the folks you are seeking.

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Spartan1371

Discussion Starter · #9 · 12 mo ago

djcomm said:
As with ANY manufacturer as a product matures from its release it will undergo modifications, most without advertising, correcting problems found in its earlier releases. For example, Glock is dealing with the G44 problems as of late. Smith and Wesson M&P12 or bodyguard 380 over the past year. I am not confident that the striker issue is a modern problem. That would have to be a complete catastrophic failure defeating the sear AND the striker safety. It is easy to chase yourself out of any carry gun looking at the internet.

Striker fired weapons have never been at the top of my desire for carry but I do carry the P365X appendix from time to time in the summer without reservations. I have full confidence in the platform. Otherwise it is a P229 of sorts.

Hope you find the answers from the folks you are seeking.

I appreciate the response, the 229 is a great pistol.

I would like to respond to this though "That would have to be a complete catastrophic failure defeating the sear AND the striker safety. It is easy to chase yourself out of any carry gun looking at the internet."

If the base of the Striker assembly leg breaks as it has in the images I shared at the beginning of the post that is only 1 piece breaking that would defeat the sear and striker safety. That's a pretty big issue for anyone carrying this. No one here would put a SA Colt in their pants with the hammer cocked, and this is a similar issue if that striker assembly tail is to break. It bypasses all of the safeties in the current design.

I appreciate your polite and respectful comment though.

ClayD

· #10 · 12 mo ago

Wings have snapped off of airplanes, ya know. Axles have snapped. Yellowstone might blow up. Sinkholes. Asteroids and meteors!

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jcrisp

· #11 · 12 mo ago

Any info on what part of the cycle the hook sheared off or what happened when it did?

Just thinking if it happened with one in the chamber and the striker cocked it could go off anytime. I wouldn't think just striker spring pressure would do it. Maybe if it where dropped? Maybe if the casting had a defect?

If it failed while firing you might get two rounds for one trigger pull?

(these are questions)

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Spartan1371

Discussion Starter · #12 · 12 mo ago

jcrisp said:
Any info on what part of the cycle the hook sheared off or what happened when it did?

Just thinking if it happened with one in the chamber and the striker cocked it could go off anytime. I wouldn't think just striker spring pressure would do it. Maybe if it where dropped? Maybe if the casting had a defect?

If it failed while firing you might get two rounds for one trigger pull?

(these are questions)

The OP poster was only cycling the slide when it broke, another poster didn't provide thorough details. The Weapons Engineer at ProTeq that recreated it on his YouTube channel was able to fire 3 rounds without issue once he removed the striker assembly tail leg and pulled it back under pressure. The striker is under full tension once the slide is racked, so with this current design any break their would cause it to release and go bang.

Obviously since the pistol is incredibly popular it hasn't happened often enough to be front page news, but regardless it's still a terrible design flaw.

Spartan1371

Discussion Starter · #13 · 12 mo ago

ClayD said:
Wings have snapped off of airplanes, ya know. Axles have snapped. Yellowstone might blow up. Sinkholes. Asteroids and meteors!

Lol, you're not wrong, but to play devils advocate...I do attempt to avoid things when possible. I wear a seat belt, a bullet proof vest, and carry a tourniquet.

At the end of the day Sig needs to engineer this better or have a really good reason why they chose to do it. Almost all of the other polymer striker fired options use a safer design with redundancies in place. I'm not at all telling people to not carry there's but I am shining a light on it for those interested, and I'm hoping an engineer will get on here or Sig employee and school me on this making the post irrelevant.

hauki

· #14 · 12 mo ago

Spartan1371 said:
Obviously since the pistol is incredibly popular it hasn't happened often enough to be front page news, but regardless it's still a terrible design flaw.

Spartan1371 said:
At the end of the day Sig needs to engineer this better or have a really good reason why they chose to do it. Almost all of the other polymer striker fired options use a safer design with redundancies in place. I'm not at all telling people to not carry there's but I am shining a light on it for those interested, and I'm hoping an engineer will get on here or Sig employee and school me on this making the post irrelevant.

You had an original question that you directed to an armorer. Your statements above are not justified unless you are an armorer, or an armorer or design engineer of handguns supports the issue as a problem. Your statements jump to a conclusion that may or may not be correct. I personally don't have the expertise to make that determination and to answer your question. I hope someone qualified can and does answer.

In the meantime, please stick to your original question and wait for someone who is qualified to make a determination. Inflammatory statements that (I assume) you cannot back up, statements that may or may not be true like "...it's still a terrible design flaw...", "At the end of the day Sig needs to engineer this better...", may spread information and fear that is or is not justified.

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Andy105

· #15 · 12 mo ago

Spartan1371 said:
The OP poster was only cycling the slide when it broke, another poster didn't provide thorough details. The Weapons Engineer at ProTeq that recreated it on his YouTube channel was able to fire 3 rounds without issue once he removed the striker assembly tail leg and pulled it back under pressure. The striker is under full tension once the slide is racked, so with this current design any break their would cause it to release and go bang.

Obviously since the pistol is incredibly popular it hasn't happened often enough to be front page news, but regardless it's still a terrible design flaw.

For me to consider it a “terrible design flaw”, I would need to see an incident or two where the part had broke on its own and the gun discharged unintentionally. I havent read about one incident where that has happened. I read a lot but, maybe I missed it…

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joeb427

· #16 · 12 mo ago

Over a million P365's out there and your issue is the first I heard or read about. I'm fine with my P365's as my and my wife's carry guns.

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Spartan1371

Discussion Starter · #17 · 12 mo ago

Standing by to stand by, hopefully there isn't an incident to read about in the future.

In the mean time I will carry one of my other options that has redundancies engineered into the piece until I'm convinced by and engineer or enlightened.

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Spartan1371

Discussion Starter · #18 · 12 mo ago

joeb427 said:
Over a million P365's out there and your issue is the first I heard or read about. I'm fine with my P365's as my and my wife's carry guns.

I'm not saying not to carry it, I am saying unless I'm educated otherwise that they put all of their striker safety contact points on one piece of a striker assembly that has broken, and that an engineer tested this and put it on YouTube explaining that it can fire if that happens.

Had I been made aware of that I would of spent my money on a different weapon system regardless of brand.

Clam Bake

· #19 · 12 mo ago

Agenda noted.

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hauki

· #20 · 12 mo ago

19 posts in the thread of which 9 are by the original OP

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