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P320 XTEN - I'm Heartbroken

37195 Views 371 Replies 86 Participants Last post by  AIRB0RNE6176
I recently purchased a new P320 XTEN. The feel of this gun in my hand is amazing! I swear it literally feels like it was molded for my hand.
It tames recoil unlike other polymer 10mm guns. It was as easy to shoot as my 5" SIG P220 10mm guns or my big 6" TRP Heavy Operator 1911.

This literally makes me sick to my stomach to say. SIG took an otherwise absolutely perfect high capacity 10mm and rendered it useless by shipping it with magazines that were NOT ready for prime time. The magazines are made in Italy by Mec-Gar and have Mec-Gar's excellent "Anti-Friction Coating", or AFC.

I really felt like my dream of the perfect high capacity 10mm had been fulfilled.
Until I started shooting something other than SIG's 180gr FMJ.

On the first outing, I forced myself to go right before the range closed and ran 50 rounds of SIG 180gr FMJ through it.
I had one failure to return to battery (FTRB). I thought it might be just stiff springs, because it was hard to load with my UpLULA, and I thought that would ease up after keeping them loaded for a week. I haven't done that yet, but as you will shortly see, it won't matter.

The magazines started indicating a problem the minute I started loading them with Underwood 180gr Bonded JHP (Speer Gold Dot bullets). I have measured the rounds with a digital caliper and found that they are well within SAAMI specs on OAL.

I was using an UpLULA to load the magazine. I was constantly hitting an invisible floor while loading. Meaning, I was having to stop, bang the mag on its back, smack the UpLULA (to the point of injuring my hand), to force the stack of rounds down to make room for the next round to be inserted.

After you get about 8 or 9 rounds in these 15-round mags, there is so much resistance to the movement of the rounds in the magazine tube (body), that you can tip the magazine over, and the top rounds fall out of the magazine! I first experienced this at the range on my second outing. I had pulled the magazine to clear a misfeed (FTRB), and I turned the magazine a little past horizontal as I was about to lay it on the bench, and five rounds fell out of the magazine!! While examining the issue at home, I discovered that there is very little room in the magazine for the rounds to move forward under recoil without contacting the front of the magazine tube.

The magazine spring, as stiff as it appears to be, is unable to push the rounds up fast enough - and not at all when rounds get jammed in the tube - to support reliable feeding.

The Mec-Gar logo.

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As can be seen in this photo, the rounds farther down in the stack are "jammed up" in the tube. I can turn this mag horizontally and rounds will fall out. You can also see that the top round, as it is oriented, is touching both the front of the tube and the rear. I've also produced situations while test-loading the mags at home, where rounds midway down the tube were jammed up, and there was a gap below them and the rounds lower in the tube. I could shake the bottom rounds up-and-down under the jammed rounds. I only had one FTRB on the first range trip shooting only SIG's 180gr FMJ, because that bullet is very rounded with a low profile and would have more room in the magazine tube.


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Spraying the interior of the tube with a Teflon dry lube and using nickel plated cases (not shown) had no noticeable positive effect. In the photo below, the rounds below are jammed up and the round on top is falling down into the tube.

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Also, even with the UpLULA, it is virtually impossible to load the 15th round. While difficult to capture in a photo, I dent the case on the 14th round trying to push it down enough to start the 15th round.
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Pictures of the follower in this magazine. Kind of odd looking.
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When the rounds stay properly oriented in the tube, there is BARELY enough room for them. Maybe 1mm in length.

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There is a phenomenon that occurs with bullets in a magazine where the top round can be properly oriented for feeding, but the round below it (second from the top) is almost horizontal. This is caused mostly by the interaction of the case rim of the top magazine with the case rim and extraction groove of the round below it. This phenomenon is most pronounced with .45ACP double stack mags, due to the size of the sloped are of the extraction groove and springs that are too weak. This misalignment leads to "nose dives" stopping the cycling of the weapon (hello P227 14-rounders). In the photo below, you cannot see the second round due to the divergence of angles between the top round and the 2nd round below it. The rounds down near the magazine catch holes appear completely horizontal with about 1mm to 1.25mm clearance between the bullet and the front of the tube.

I think the problem with these 10mm mags is that transition point when the rounds go from a proper feed angle and start to "go horizontal" in the tube. There isn't enough clearance in the tube, especially if the rounds shift at all under recoil.
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I fear SIG screwed up and didn't make the magazines large enough for anything other than their small-profile 180gr FMJ.
But maybe a modification to the follower (I don't know what kind of modification) and a different spring could fix them. I just don't know yet.

I have grown tired of SIG pushing guns out without thorough testing. They seriously need to test their products with ammo that everyone will want to use, especially for self-defense or protection in the woods.

They made an otherwise perfect gun little more than a curiosity by failing on the magazines.
Unfortunately, given SIG's complete lack of interest in fixing the 14-round magazines for the P227 (when all they needed were stiffer springs), I fear that SIG will never fix the XTEN mags. 😭

I did a quick search on the Internet to see if I was alone in this issue and instantly found that I am not.
Videos exist of others deciding, like me, that the XTEN is not worthy of staking your life on it.

Do NOT use it as a "woods gun" or for any other self-defense purpose. At least until (and if) SIG corrects the problem with the mags.
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I have only shot one 10mm…my buddies Colt Delta Elite. Wow! What an awesome feel and accurate pistol. We shot some FMJ range stuff and some old Norma 200 gr. stuff that dated back to the early days of 10. The recoil actually felt good…heavy metal gun with powerful rounds…smile on my face :D This started the research and hunt for a 10 and I actually ordered the X-Ten but then decided to cancel after reading more about the problems.

I might go 220 Legion…expensive for a single stack and don’t love the new greenish gray finish. But Sig knows how to build a hammer fired gun.

Colt would be amazing but tough to find for a fair price.

M&P is a possibility as I wouldn’t mind having a polymer double stack for my first 10.

SA Ronin is a possibility…love the 1911 platform and all metal guns! Hard to find in stock.

X-Ten is possible if 1 of Sig’s 300 engineers can pull away from the marketing departments demands of more models, colors and do -dads and make the gun reliable…:LOL:

We’ll see…I have already bought 700 rounds of various ammo.
 

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The fit of the XD(M) to my hand was a big reason I bought it to try. It fit my hand better than my G20 Gen 4, but was just not fun to shoot. And the grip is too slick. I discovered why I see so many used XD(M) pistols with skateboard tape on the grips.
There are at LEAST 13 used S.A. XD(M) Elite's in the 4 main LGS's and pawn shops in my area (some are Like-New), and they range from 10mm to .45ACP and most are the 3.8" bbl variety.

I'm not saying that it isn't a good shooter, but I know it is not for me in regards to it's ergonomics and grip texture. Same goes for the G20/G40 for me and my hands.
 

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Discussion Starter · #324 ·
I am just the opposite. At the moment I have the XDM Elite 10mm in both the 3.8 and 4.5 configuration. They are my preferred striker fired 10mm at the moment. They both have talon grips. Have been dead reliable. Don’t find any issue with recoil
Fit of a particular gun to the individual hand, and the grip strength of the individual, have everything to do with perceived recoil. The dimensions of the grip, particularly the distance between frontstrap and backstrap, and the contour of the frontstrap did not allow me to sufficiently wrap the fingers of my strong hand around the grip to control the recoil. But the recoil also caused me pain due to my carpal tunnel and ganglion cyst, and many injuries over my life. No other 10mm I own causes these issues for me. Not 1911s, not the P220, not even the G20 Gen 4. None inflict pain on me. But the SA did.

And the grip was too slick for me to get the gun back on target. Every shot, I had to reacquire my grip. My grip strength is no longer sufficient to overcome the lack of grip texture. I could improve that with shooting gloves but I don't want a gun I had to wear gloves to shoot or that I had to stick sandpaper on the obtain what the gun should already have - good grip texture. Especially on a gun I might consider carrying.

So, I let it go.
 

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I want to add that this is the first SIG I've handled with a straight trigger with a trigger pull that was a perfect distance for my hands. All other P320s with a straight trigger have had a trigger reach that was too long. But, on my first outing it pinched my finger between the end of the trigger and the trigger guard and gave me a blood blister. Picture was after a few days. I didn't even know when it happened. It was later, after I got home that I noticed the blood blister. :D I would like to know if this gun will accept a standard curved trigger, like the one on my P320 AXG "Classic". I would like to change it. But I have to determine what to do about the damned magazine problem. I plan to contact SIG and tell them about my experience with the magazines. I'm willing to allow them to swap the mags, but I don't think that will help because I believe there is a basic design problem with the mags. I haven't found any dealer that has mags in stock. I'm on the "notify" list at SIG Sauer's online store. View attachment 465452
I have had the xten since it hit the market. Came with 2 mags and I have had 0 issues loading. Yes the last round is tight but it works like all new mags. Have shot 5 different target brands and 3 different loads of Underwood. All ran flawlessly. Was on Sigs notify list for mags and got 3 more. No issues with those either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #326 ·
I have had the xten since it hit the market. Came with 2 mags and I have had 0 issues loading. Yes the last round is tight but it works like all new mags. Have shot 5 different target brands and 3 different loads of Underwood. All ran flawlessly. Was on Sigs notify list for mags and got 3 more. No issues with those either.
Cool. SIG sent me two new mags. I have the same problems with those. :confused1:
 

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Fit of a particular gun to the individual hand, and the grip strength of the individual, have everything to do with perceived recoil. The dimensions of the grip, particularly the distance between frontstrap and backstrap, and the contour of the frontstrap did not allow me to sufficiently wrap the fingers of my strong hand around the grip to control the recoil. But the recoil also caused me pain due to my carpal tunnel and ganglion cyst, and many injuries over my life. No other 10mm I own causes these issues for me. Not 1911s, not the P220, not even the G20 Gen 4. None inflict pain on me. But the SA did.

And the grip was too slick for me to get the gun back on target. Every shot, I had to reacquire my grip. My grip strength is no longer sufficient to overcome the lack of grip texture. I could improve that with shooting gloves but I don't want a gun I had to wear gloves to shoot or that I had to stick sandpaper on the obtain what the gun should already have - good grip texture. Especially on a gun I might consider carrying.

So, I let it go.
Yes we are all built different and have other variables so for someone to say one gun will work the same for everyone is folly
 

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I have had the xten since it hit the market. Came with 2 mags and I have had 0 issues loading. Yes the last round is tight but it works like all new mags. Have shot 5 different target brands and 3 different loads of Underwood. All ran flawlessly. Was on Sigs notify list for mags and got 3 more. No issues with those either.
Have you shot a mag full of 220gr hardcast? Those seem to be problematic, although not the only load that has trouble running. When was your X-Ten made?
 

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I believe I posted my ammunition specs and that the two FTF issues I have had were with full magazines and each one was around round 4 or so. If I only put 10 rounds in, I had zero issues.

Granted, I’ve only put around 150 rounds through it (bought it used, and without FCU, so there’s that).


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So after around 400 rds that initially included some heavy Underwood stuff and some other JHP with just one ftf, last week I was shooting a box of 180 gr Aguila when it suddenly stopped feeding. 7 straight rds ftf. Both mags. I was probably halfway thru the box when this happened and I have previously shot 100rds of the same stuff.

So last night I cleaned the XTen. I greased my slides which is not my usual routine. Usually a dot or two of oil. Disassembled one of the mags and wiped it out but really it was very clean so I didn't bother with the other. Loaded the Aguila stuff and it wouldn't hand cycle.

Took it to the range today and shot a box of Federal American Eagle without problem. So I loaded up the Aguila stuff that hadn't been in the gun, about 6 rds. It cycled fine. Then I loaded the 7 rounds that had jammed and 8 more that wouldn't hand cycle.

Flawless. Not one ftf.

I love this gun. My first 5 shots at five yards put 4 in the same hole and one about an inch high and right. I shot it off hand both right handed and left. Put the target 22yds away, laid the gun on the bench, punched in 1yd and hit go. Picked up the pistol and put 4 in the chest and one in the head as the target rushed me. I know others are having issues but I love mine!
 

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...meanwhile, FN USA is just chomping at the bit with their new "centimeter" shooter.

Curious to see if FN is using their FN509 9mm-sized grip module with the FN510 & 10mm ammo like SIG did using the X-Five 9mm-sized grip module on our X-Ten & 10mm ammo...:unsure:
 

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...meanwhile, FN USA is just chomping at the bit with their new "centimeter" shooter.

Curious to see if FN is using their FN509 9mm-sized grip module with the FN510 & 10mm ammo like SIG did using the X-Five 9mm-sized grip module on our X-Ten & 10mm ammo...:unsure:
Funny you say this...

I lucked out and my local dealer happened to have a FN510 in stock and I bought it last night.

This is what the X-Ten should have been - it's a magnificent pistol!

I also own and love the 509 tactical and the 510 grip isn't the same - it has a slightly scaled up grip module, but the ergos are far better then the Glock 20 (I've owned a gen 4 and handled a gen 5 this week and it wasn't enough of a difference to entice me). Not quite as good as an X-Ten, but the mags have waaay more room in them so at this point, it's worth it. I've handled the m&p 10 as well and I like the FN more.

Put just under 200 rounds through the FN510 today (and maybe 50 through the X-Ten to compare) INCLUDING 2 boxes (40 rounds) of BB 220 hardcast and 10 rounds of Underwood 200 hardcast. Not a single freaking problem! It was glorious. After the first 100 rounds, I shot as limp wristed as I could with my weak hand... Not a single issue even with the 220s. Every time I squeezed the trigger, it went bang. Every last round locked the slide back... Wasn't a single thing I would have changed. So stoked! Plus 22 rounds of Buffalo Bore is some serious business!

It was accurate, had a surprisingly good trigger - slightly gritty take up, but super crisp and clean break that measures between 4.5 and 5 lbs on my trigger gage. Take up cleans up on these. FWIW, the trigger is substantially better then the Gen 5 20 and the M&P I tried this week.

FNs point super naturally for me... Always been a fan of the 509.

She's a bit more spendy, but at this point, it's worth it to me for the peace of mind. I was just tickled after the range session.

This is my woods gun now.

I love the X-Ten and it shot the FMJs great today... It's the easiest shooting 10mm I have shot, but for serious carry, FN gets my money now.

The FN handles recoil well - not quite as good as the X-Ten, but was still a pleasure to shoot!

Edit to add: the manual even has verbage in it stating it was engineered to handle as many different loads as possible... So I feel like they are taking a shot at some of the other 10s that have had struggles.

Lemme know if anyone has any questions. I'll post some comparison pics later.
 

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Great post w/ awesome feedback. Congrats on the early pickup!

Looks like FN sat back and let their engineers egg-heads figure out the best answer for a striker-fired 10mm.

As much as I'd like for FN to release a hammered FNX10, this is good news about their FN510. I may have to add this 10mm shooter to the collection sooner rather than later.
 
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