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P229 SAO ever in 357Sig/40?

1991 Views 24 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  TXGRunner, 
TXGRunner
Did Sig ever offer the P229 SAO in 357 Sig or 40S&W?

I haven't seen any, nor did I find any references in older posts.

Sig no longer sells the slides 357/40 slides, but would 9mm SAO frame accept a 357/40 slide, and could it take the additional abuse?
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Taskotzke59
The Legion would be the only SAO 229. In .357/.40 no. If they did they would be rarer then hens teeth. I could wrong and hope I am cause I’d like to have one. As for the frames, the 9,.357,.40 are made of the same alloy. Not sure if they are dimensionally the same. Probably not and the locking mechanism is for sure not the same. I wonder if it would be easier to just convert a P229 .357/.40 to SAO. I’m betting the frame would require some machining.
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aclarke333
I have used a Legacy 40/357 slide and barrels with my SAO P229 Legion but the safety is rendered inoperable due to the slide being wider. I have since picked up a DA/SA M11A1 to use as a base for the 40/357 options.
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Taskotzke59
I couldn’t find any reference to .357 SAO 229 Legion in the pdf versions of Sig catalogs that are posted here on the forum.
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Taskotzke59
aclark, you make a good observation involving the thumb safety. Your use of the M11 frame is spot on.
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TXGRunner
@aclarke333 your SA/DA M11A1 frame still doesn't let you use the thumb safety, right?

Now that I think about it, there's a physical cut in the slide for the safety, just like a 1911, right? So, it can't be a parts swap, it requires machining regardless, in which case I am better off just starting with an 80% frame.

I am fine with the P229, but that's a compromise from what I really want. My real goal is 357/40 in a 1911. The Nightmare Carry is great, was available in 357 Sig with an optional 40S&W barrel, has the carry cut/bobtail, but it has a series 80 FPB. Even if I put up with that, used 357 Sig Nightmares are going for ~$2000, when they're available at all.

I swear, there's a cabal of manufacturer decision makers with the expressed goal of never allowing me to buy exactly what I want - there always has to be some poison pill, or an incompatibility, or an exclusion to make sure I can't get the feature set I want in a car, a camera, a computer, a watch, or a gun. Even the "custom" makers like Ed Brown, Nighthawk Custom, and Wilson Combat advertise "make it exactly how you want it" as long as it's 9mm or 45 ACP, maybe occasionally 10mm or 38 Super (fantastic cartridge).

"You can have any color you want as long as it's black."

Thanks for the replies.
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Taskotzke59
TXG, speaking of 1911’s, there’s a company named Fusion Firearms here in Venice Florida. They are Custom 1911 builders that just might scratch that itch. Google them.
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TXGRunner
Interesting. Complete pistols (pre-made models anyway) are just in 45 and 9mm. Even under pro-line custom (and kits), they only list 45 ACP and 9mm. However, under barrels, they offer 40S&W and 10mm and under the detailed description they mention 380ACP, 38 Super, 357 Sig, 9x23, and 9x25 in addition to 40S&W and 10mm.

Either they did offer the other chamberings previously (as Wilson Combat once did), or they are still an option, but on request. Fusion Firearms looks like a very good option.

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Thanks for the tip.
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aclarke333
TXGRunner said:
@aclarke333 your SA/DA M11A1 frame still doesn't let you use the thumb safety, right?
Click to expand...
It has a decocker.
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Willard
Chronologically I believe the P229 SAO was brought out during the same period the .357 Sig and .40 S&W was on it's way out of production. As was just discovered, in a similar thread, the .357 Sig and .40 S&W Slides are 0.10" wider than the 9mm offerings, causing interference with the Thumb Safeties.

A problem that doesn't exist with the P226, as the Slides are all the same width in regards to the stainless slides.of all calibers.
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Navy87guy
TXGRunner said:
@aclarke333
I am fine with the P229, but that's a compromise from what I really want. My real goal is 357/40 in a 1911. The Nightmare Carry is great, was available in 357 Sig with an optional 40S&W barrel, has the carry cut/bobtail, but it has a series 80 FPB. Even if I put up with that, used 357 Sig Nightmares are going for ~$2000, when they're available at all.
Click to expand...
Too bad…you just missed two Nightmare Fastbacks on here this week for $1,300 each. (But they do have the Series 80 safety.)
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TXGRunner
Willard said:
--snip--
A problem that doesn't exist with the P226, as the Slides are all the same width in regards to the stainless slides.of all calibers.
Click to expand...
So, in theory, a P226 SAO in 357/40 could be made without re-engineering, correct?

I need to go find it, but I remember a site selling 80% frames for the P226/P229 a few years back. At the time, I was trying to wade through the differences in the SAO and DA frames. I don't mind making my own range toy, but I wouldn't carry my own creation. So, if there is any chance I'd carry it, I want the pistol made by a competent pistolsmith. It gets back to the old quality, time, price, choose two.

A custom Fusion Firearms is ~$3100. Nightmare's were only ~$1300 new. As @Navy87guy points out, I guess they are still out there for about that price. Last summer, when I was actively looking, they were $2000 on auction sites. I'd feel sick about missing the recent sales except I won't be in a position to buy for another 6-9 months anyway.

I really busted my budget last year with two Dan Wessons and a few other minor purchases. The Guardian in 38 Super is my EDC.

What started this whole thing is earlier this year, I had a 357 Sig barrel fit to my Browning HighPower 40S&W. I'd like another single action in 357 Sig, ideally a 1911 in a series 70 configuration with a bobtail. What I might do is buy an LEO trade-in P229 in 357 Sig (or 40S&W) as a loaner for my nephews and to see how much I like it in the DA configuration.

Again, thanks for all the input. I appreciate it.
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Willard
TXGRunner said:
So, in theory, a P226 SAO in 357/40 could be made without re-engineering, correct?

I need to go find it, but I remember a site selling 80% frames for the P226/P229 a few years back. At the time, I was trying to wade through the differences in the SAO and DA frames. I don't mind making my own range toy, but I wouldn't carry my own creation. So, if there is any chance I'd carry it, I want the pistol made by a competent pistolsmith. It gets back to the old quality, time, price, choose two.

A custom Fusion Firearms is ~$3100. Nightmare's were only ~$1300 new. As @Navy87guy points out, I guess they are still out there for about that price. Last summer, when I was actively looking, they were $2000 on auction sites. I'd feel sick about missing the recent sales except I won't be in a position to buy for another 6-9 months anyway.

I really busted my budget last year with two Dan Wessons and a few other minor purchases. The Guardian in 38 Super is my EDC.

What started this whole thing is earlier this year, I had a 357 Sig barrel fit to my Browning HighPower 40S&W. I'd like another single action in 357 Sig, ideally a 1911 in a series 70 configuration with a bobtail. What I might do is buy an LEO trade-in P229 in 357 Sig (or 40S&W) as a loaner for my nephews and to see how much I like it in the DA configuration.

Again, thanks for all the input. I appreciate it.
Click to expand...
Yes, the P226 will accept .357/.40 Slides. Either the earlier short Extractor design, or the latest long Extractor design may be used, as they are the same width.

As far as using an 80% frame, to create a SAO, I haven't yet seen a P226 that could be converted, unlike the older P220 frame design.

Grey Line Air gun Gun accessory Composite material


The "stud" where the Safety spring locates, would be the biggest hurdle in prepping an 80% frame, as machining the area of the Hammer Stop Pin, to accept the Safeties would be easy, once properly located. The largest hurdle could possibly be obtaining the SAO specific parts, as the latest P226 versions all come with Short Reset Trigger Safety Levers, and Trigger Bar that are unique, as the SRT Safety Levers are coveted by P220 SAO owners trying to convert to a Short Reset Trigger system.

One of my P226 SAOs was initially offered as a .22 pistol, allowing it to be converted to any desired centerfire caliber by the owner, after learning the pistol with the cheaper .22 ammunition.

Air gun Trigger Wood Gun barrel Gun accessory


Besides P226 Legion SAOs, there were also "Elites"...

Font Camera accessory Tints and shades Bumper Gadget

Air gun Trigger Wood Gun barrel Gun accessory
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TXGRunner
@Willard Thanks for the detailed reply with pics. I expected the manual safety to physically interact with the slide, but I guess it just disables the trigger and/or blocks the hammer from falling.

This explains a cryptic answer to a FAQ on the SigSauer website:
"Centerfire Kits (9mm,.357 & .40) are intended for use on .22 Classic Framed Pistols. SIG SAUER does not guarantee or advocate the use of .40/.357 kits on standard centerfire 9mm frames."

P226 22LR SAOs look like they are rare, but do exist. If I understand you correctly (and the FAQ answer), I can get to the P226 SAO 357 Sig with a 22LR frame and a 357 conversion kit. Expensive, but still far less than custom, more reliable than home-made, and manual safety works - so cocked & locked carry.

I did find one of the places offering 80% Sig frames (Matrix Precision), but you're correct, none of their frames are SAO and they don't offer SAO parts kits. Based on the pics above, the difference in the frames make this a far more complex project. I vaguely recall, when I looked at this a few years ago, I came to a similar conclusion: I couldn't use a DA/SA frame to get what I wanted.

The simplest (maybe least expensive) route is probably the P226 22LR SAO and a LE trade in P226 357 Sig, then swap slides. Sig's website no longer lists the "Centerfire Kit" on their website.

Thanks again for your help.
Cheers,
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Willard
TXGRunner said:
@Willard Thanks for the detailed reply with pics. I expected the manual safety to physically interact with the slide, but I guess it just disables the trigger and/or blocks the hammer from falling.

This explains a cryptic answer to a FAQ on the SigSauer website:
"Centerfire Kits (9mm,.357 & .40) are intended for use on .22 Classic Framed Pistols. SIG SAUER does not guarantee or advocate the use of .40/.357 kits on standard centerfire 9mm frames."

P226 22LR SAOs look like they are rare, but do exist. If I understand you correctly (and the FAQ answer), I can get to the P226 SAO 357 Sig with a 22LR frame and a 357 conversion kit. Expensive, but still far less than custom, more reliable than home-made, and manual safety works - so cocked & locked carry.

I did find one of the places offering 80% Sig frames (Matrix Precision), but you're correct, none of their frames are SAO and they don't offer SAO parts kits. Based on the pics above, the difference in the frames make this a far more complex project. I vaguely recall, when I looked at this a few years ago, I came to a similar conclusion: I couldn't use a DA/SA frame to get what I wanted.

The simplest (maybe least expensive) route is probably the P226 22LR SAO and a LE trade in P226 357 Sig, then swap slides. Sig's website no longer lists the "Centerfire Kit" on their website.

Thanks again for your help.
Cheers,
Click to expand...
The "Centerfire Kit" comment I believe is in reference to the early German P226 models that were equipped with the infamous "Mud Rails".

The P226s that were offered in .22, used the same frames as the other centerfire versions, both DA/SA, and SAO, they were a marketing scheme for new shooters, to buy a Sig, and learn to shoot with a mild recoiling, and cheaper to shoot rimfire. Once they felt competent with the pistol, they could get the centerfire caliber of their choice.

You would likely have better luck finding a P226 9mm SAO, as they never offered it in .357 Sig or .40 S&W that I'm aware of. The .22 versions were, as I said a marketing scheme, and probably not that many produced. Although any of the P226 .22 Conversion Kits will work on a 9mm SAO, if that's desired. Just to be clear, this isn't the Mosquito!

Just as a point of reference, my 226BR-22-BAS-SAO was only $579 NIB in Feb 2020 from Kittery Trading Post, while 3 months earlier paid about $830 for NIB with the E26R-9-BSE-SAO.
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pt035458
Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Font Revolver

TXGRunner said:
Did Sig ever offer the P229 SAO in 357 Sig or 40S&W?

I haven't seen any, nor did I find any references in older posts.

Sig no longer sells the slides 357/40 slides, but would 9mm SAO frame accept a 357/40 slide, and could it take the additional abuse?
Click to expand...
There is one listed in Uncle Henry’s classifieds.

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Willard
pt035458 said:
View attachment 455657

There is one listed in Uncle Henry’s classifieds.
Click to expand...
That's a DAK (Double Action Kellerman), not a SAO (Single Action Only)! Most DAKs were in either .40 S&W or .357 Sig and used by many Federal LE Agencies. OP is looking for Single Action Only versions, initially in P229s, and currently P226s.
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pt035458
Willard said:
That's a DAK (Double Action Kellerman), not a SAO (Single Action Only)! Most DAKs were in either .40 S&W or .357 Sig and used by many Federal LE Agencies. OP is looking for Single Action Only versions, initially in P229s, and currently P226s.
Click to expand...
And here I thought the DAK used a decocker. I stand corrected😜
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Willard
pt035458 said:
And here I thought the DAK used a decocker. I stand corrected😜
Click to expand...
Too many acronyms... :giggle:
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TXGRunner
Willard said:
--snip--
Just as a point of reference, my 226BR-22-BAS-SAO was only $579 NIB in Feb 2020 from Kittery Trading Post, while 3 months earlier paid about $830 for NIB with the E26R-9-BSE-SAO.
Click to expand...
Timing is everything. What a difference 2 years made.

This solution is really growing on me. That also allows me to get a SAS slide. That second pic you posted, wood grip 22L, looks like what I want, but any P226 SAO might do.

Thanks. Maybe in the Fall I can return to this thread with a pic.
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