p229 Legion 40S&W occasional failure to feed
Hi,
I have two p229 Legions and one of them does not like certain brands of ammo. By not liking I mean I get a failure to feed where the cartridge is stuck on the ramp. I noticed that the extractor feels maybe a bit tighter than it does on the older Legion, which will eat any ammo and always did. In many ways this is similar to the problems that people experienced with the p224, I know I can probably get Sig to fix this, but I am curious what it is that Sig does and what exactly is "tight" about the extractor. Is it that the springs are out of spec and a bit too strong? The hole on which the extractor pivots too tight around the pin? Or is it that the claw geometry is incorrect?
I have two p229 Legions and one of them does not like certain brands of ammo. By not liking I mean I get a failure to feed where the cartridge is stuck on the ramp. I noticed that the extractor feels maybe a bit tighter than it does on the older Legion, which will eat any ammo and always did. In many ways this is similar to the problems that people experienced with the p224, I know I can probably get Sig to fix this, but I am curious what it is that Sig does and what exactly is "tight" about the extractor. Is it that the springs are out of spec and a bit too strong? The hole on which the extractor pivots too tight around the pin? Or is it that the claw geometry is incorrect?
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Yes, they are both 40s and the spring looks the same, since I changed them recently, but no change in behavior from updating the spring.
In fact both behaved the same way since the day I first took each to the range. The one that gets FTFs gets them most reliably using Magtech ammo, where it would be at least once per full mag. In every case pushing the slide forward with my thumb closes it. The behavior is about identical to the 224 issues with 40S&W
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Inhad similar issues when I first brought my P229 9mm Legion to the range, I had 3 failures to feed but only with hollow point ammo. I also had one failure to eject with 1 round of Winchester WB FMJ. Though the second time I brought out to the range, no failures what so ever though only used WWB FMJ. Sis not try again with hollow points.
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To do a quick check of the extractor, remove slide, take a cartridge and slide it up the face of the breech from the bottom of the slide - this is the way the case base has to move as the cartridge is stripped from the magazine. The cartridge should move up the face with little friction which will increase some as the base groove moves under the extractor claw.
Once in position, the extractor should hold the cartridge with gentle shaking of the slide - but not a lot! Remove, and inspect cartridge case, breech face and extractor - there should be no brass shavings.
Feeding problems can be caused by several other things as well.
Once in position, the extractor should hold the cartridge with gentle shaking of the slide - but not a lot! Remove, and inspect cartridge case, breech face and extractor - there should be no brass shavings.
Feeding problems can be caused by several other things as well.
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Agreed, I realize there are many potential issues that can cause feeding problems. I tried your test of sliding in a cartridge up the breach face, and while I get no visible brass shavings, it certainly does not slide easily under the claw, and once in there it will not be dislodged even when shaken pretty vigorously in any direction. Does that mean the extractor is too tight?
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I had a minor problem with my P229 Legion, called Sig, got a RMA to return and had it back within two weeks. Let Sig take care of your Legion problem under warranty.
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The problem with this approach is that there are a very few more obscure brands of ammunition where the FTFs are manifested, while working well with everything else, so the odds of them seeing the problem are pretty low. I can avoid the problem pretty well, I just happened to run across some ammo where I had a few FTF's so wanted to learn more about the problem, particularly with respect to the extractor...
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Tight Extractor
So I knocked out the long extractor pin, and cut off half a turn off the inner, long spring. Put the extractor back, noting that it is easier to make it move with my finger after this operation. Cycled some ammo that was always problematic, Magtech, riding the slide to slow it down and it still cycled perfectly. Took it to the range and it ate everything without a hiccup. I was then inspired to do the same with the p224 that would not cycle the same cheap ammo reliably. This was the more interesting part...
The p224 had an extractor that even after the pin was knocked out would not come out by hand. I had to use a nylon punch to knock it forward and out of the slot. I had a new, long extractor on hand, which fit easily into the slot, put in a new pin, and like magic it now cycled everything and ate any ammo at the range.
In both cases, what's really notable is once cycling is reliable, the extractor can easily be moved with light to moderate finger pressure, which was not the case before. Clearly there are many possible causes of failures to feed, but if it's a long extractor that requires significant force to depress on the far end from the ejection port, then I bet there is a problem with the extractor.
So I knocked out the long extractor pin, and cut off half a turn off the inner, long spring. Put the extractor back, noting that it is easier to make it move with my finger after this operation. Cycled some ammo that was always problematic, Magtech, riding the slide to slow it down and it still cycled perfectly. Took it to the range and it ate everything without a hiccup. I was then inspired to do the same with the p224 that would not cycle the same cheap ammo reliably. This was the more interesting part...
The p224 had an extractor that even after the pin was knocked out would not come out by hand. I had to use a nylon punch to knock it forward and out of the slot. I had a new, long extractor on hand, which fit easily into the slot, put in a new pin, and like magic it now cycled everything and ate any ammo at the range.
In both cases, what's really notable is once cycling is reliable, the extractor can easily be moved with light to moderate finger pressure, which was not the case before. Clearly there are many possible causes of failures to feed, but if it's a long extractor that requires significant force to depress on the far end from the ejection port, then I bet there is a problem with the extractor.
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