[BigPhil716]

Gentleman. I have a concern regarding a P228 I just won on GB. The title said West German P228 but the slide says Made in Germany. A call into Sig states that all pistols made before the fall of the Wall are West Germans and those after are German. How can I be certain I got a real deal? Not that I would be terribly upset she is a beauty. Just for my own curiosity. Thank you in advance for any insight.

 

[bblr]

If it doesn't say "W. Germany" then it's not a West German. Period. That doesn't make it any worse or better. Just made at a different time in the same factory. It should have a B serial number (not AJU, AHU, or something similar). If it doesn't have serial numbers on frame, slide, and barrel, then it was assembled in the USA from German parts. This is probably where your beef with the seller might be. Buyers must always beware on GB!

 

[bblr]

Link to GB auction?

 

[sigke]

If it doesn't say "W. Germany" then it's not a West German. Period. That doesn't make it any worse or better. Just made at a different time in the same factory. It should have a B serial number (not AJU, AHU, or something similar). If it doesn't have serial numbers on frame, slide, and barrel, then it was assembled in the USA from German parts. This is probably where your beef with the seller might be. Buyers must always beware on GB!

+1

 

[bearone2]

many 229's on gb are advertised as stainless, which some folks take to mean "all stainless" but only the slide.

like you found, posted as w german when it's a german slide, maybe frame.

pics in ads aren't always what is delivered.

i got burned a few years ago & will never (never say never) buy a used firearm from a vendor online......but from an individual on a website like s t where i trust the individual.

bblr:
link might be no good if the auction is over!!!

 

[bblr]

bblr:
link might be no good if the auction is over!!!

He can go into his "My GunBroker" and click "Buying", and it will show it for at least 30 days.

 

[sigken]

If it doesn't have serial numbers on frame, slide, and barrel, then it was assembled in the USA from German parts. This is probably where your beef with the seller might be. Buyers must always beware on GB!

Are the P228s assembled in the USA much less desirable? Is there any difference in terms of reliability or performance? I've seen some of those in very good condition but still hesitate to get one.

I think my main reason not getting a P228 is magazine interchangeability between P228 and my P229-1s. I hate having to buy a bunch of P228 magazines just for one P228

 

[AaInMo]

You did not buy a west Ger. Buyer beware.

 

[bblr]

Are the P228s assembled in the USA much less desirable? Is there any difference in terms of reliability or performance? I've seen some of those in very good condition but still hesitate to get one.

I don't think so. I bought one back in 2004. Some people just like the triple serials and German proof marks. I'll admit they look cool. I love how my 1988 P226 and 2009 P225 have all the German goodies. But function-wise I don't think it makes a difference if it's assembled in Eckernförde by Germans, or Exeter by Americans--all the parts are the same.

 

[bearone2]

He can go into his "My GunBroker" and click "Buying", and it will show it for at least 30 days.

thank you

 

[wgsigs]

Personally, I have to laugh whenever discussions like this occur. What really is a West German P228?

Is it a SIG that was actually made in West Germany? Then it is a P228 that was made before reunification, which was October 3, 1990 when West Germany ceased to exist.

Is it just a P228 with "W Germany" on the slide? Then that includes P228s made between 1991-1995 that were technically made in a reunified Germany, not West Germany.

What is a post 1995 German P228 CPO that had its slide replaced with one marked "W Germany"?

Your P228 doesn't qualify on either of these accounts since it only has "Germany" on the slide. However, you can take comfort knowing that it was made in the same plant and most likely on the same equipment as those "W Germany" P228s, however you want to define it. In my opinion, you have as much right to call your SIG a West German P228 as those with SIGs made between 1991 and 1995, even if it is missing a "W", since they were made in the the same place.

Do I prefer a "W Germany" marked SIG to a "Germany" one? Sure, but I won't pay any more for one because there is no logical reason to.

I think that all P228s are of equal quality, but I personally prefer the German-made ones because I think they might be a little bit better. There are many who do prefer the "W Germany" P228s so yes they are more desirable to some.

 

[jsawyer09]

Personally, I have to laugh whenever discussions like this occur. What really is a West German P228?

Is it a SIG that was actually made in West Germany? Then it is a P228 that was made before reunification, which was October 3, 1990 when West Germany ceased to exist.

Is it just a P228 with "W Germany" on the slide? Then that includes P228s made between 1991-1995 that were technically made in a reunified Germany, not West Germany.

What is a post 1995 German P228 CPO that had its slide replaced with one marked "W Germany"?

Your P228 doesn't qualify on either of these accounts since it only has "Germany" on the slide. However, you can take comfort knowing that it was made in the same plant and most likely on the same equipment as those "W Germany" P228s, however you want to define it. In my opinion, you have as much right to call your SIG a West German P228 as those with SIGs made between 1991 and 1995, even if it is missing a "W", since they were made in the the same place.

Do I prefer a "W Germany" marked SIG to a "Germany" one? Sure, but I won't pay any more for one because there is no logical reason to.

I think that all P228s are of equal quality, but I personally prefer the German-made ones because think they might be a little bit better. There are many who do prefer the "W Germany" P228s so yes they are more desirable to some.

I've always pretty much been in this camp regarding P228s. It amazes me as well how many 'prefer' or 'desire' the ones marked W Germany. I couldn't care less either way, personally.

However, I think the OP's real issue resides in the false advertising realm of the discussion—paid for one thing but received something else, if I am to understand this correctly. If it were me, I'd still keep it if all else advertised were spot-on. I own plenty of both (as many here do), and can say with confidence that there's no difference; it is a roll mark, nothing more.

 

[raminator08]

Besides the marking, I doubt anyone here can tell a difference between a "W. German" and "German" Sig.
As far as the listing advertising it as West German, technically they're not wrong since it was still made in the same factory in west Germany. Your cardinal directions do not change.

 

[12131]

If it doesn't say "W. Germany" then it's not a West German. Period. That doesn't make it any worse or better. Just made at a different time in the same factory. It should have a B serial number (not AJU, AHU, or something similar). If it doesn't have serial numbers on frame, slide, and barrel, then it was assembled in the USA from German parts. This is probably where your beef with the seller might be. Buyers must always beware on GB!

Agree with everything said here.

But, I also just want to expand on the emphasized statement. Although in the OP's case, it is most likely true, note that German law does not require serial number on all three major parts (frame, slide, and barrel).

Just take a look at the X5s and X6s, and you'll see that they likely will have serial number only on frame and slide. The barrel has proof marks and date code but no SN.

Another example is some of the M11Bs having numbers on frame and barrel, but not on slide. The barrel also has German proof marks and date code.

 

[BigPhil716]

Thank you for all the great points you all have made. Serial number puts it at 1995 it is German made in the factory. It has very minimal use so I am happy. I will be more careful next time. I still think at $650 I didn't do too bad. It has the original case, 10 round magazines and the test target. I plan to try it out at the range when I get it so it's only value will be to me as a good shooter.

Thanks again for all the info. You guys are an invaluable source of info.

 

[daytwadog]

Personally, I have to laugh whenever discussions like this occur. What really is a West German P228?

Is it a SIG that was actually made in West Germany? Then it is a P228 that was made before reunification, which was October 3, 1990 when West Germany ceased to exist.

Is it just a P228 with "W Germany" on the slide? Then that includes P228s made between 1991-1995 that were technically made in a reunified Germany, not West Germany.

What is a post 1995 German P228 CPO that had its slide replaced with one marked "W Germany"?

Your P228 doesn't qualify on either of these accounts since it only has "Germany" on the slide. However, you can take comfort knowing that it was made in the same plant and most likely on the same equipment as those "W Germany" P228s, however you want to define it. In my opinion, you have as much right to call your SIG a West German P228 as those with SIGs made between 1991 and 1995, even if it is missing a "W", since they were made in the the same place.

Do I prefer a "W Germany" marked SIG to a "Germany" one? Sure, but I won't pay any more for one because there is no logical reason to.

I think that all P228s are of equal quality, but I personally prefer the German-made ones because I think they might be a little bit better. There are many who do prefer the "W Germany" P228s so yes they are more desirable to some.

there is no logical reason to. logic? We are talking about older Sigs...

 

[DBS]

Performance-wise, all 228s are created equal. About that there can be no argument.

But I'm only interested in the triple-SN West German ones anymore.

 

[wgsigs]

there is no logical reason to. logic? We are talking about older Sigs...

I know. It's the cult of the "W", of which I'm a fringe member. :lol:

 

[black1970]

If I might add to this discussion with the OP's permission. When one purchases a firearm from a website one needs to research thourghly what one is buying and look at the pictures very closely. Some pictures are not clear and some are worthy of Life Magazine. As the old adage goes let the buyer beware. As many of you know a lot of sellers on some websites do not really know their product or at least pretend not to know.

 

[CatmanIsGod]

What is a post 1995 German P228 CPO that had its slide replaced with one marked "W Germany"?

A FrankenSig Dasterd.

Thank you for all the great points you all have made. Serial number puts it at 1995 it is German made in the factory. It has very minimal use so I am happy. I will be more careful next time. I still think at $650 I didn't do too bad. It has the original case, 10 round magazines and the test target. I plan to try it out at the range when I get it so it's only value will be to me as a good shooter.

Thanks again for all the info. You guys are an invaluable source of info.

You are OK. It is still a German made SIG (I have absolutely ZERO interest in the SIGs made in the USA). I do tend to pay a little more for a W.German ...or maybe tend to favor those more when I am buying another one. Having said that, I EDC OC a German P228 that I sent back to SIG for the Action Enhancement package, New Night Sights, Short Reset Trigger (and probably a few other things that I am forgetting.) The gun was amazing before I sent it to SIG ...now it is a dream to shoot. It didn't have box or paperwork when I bought ....but the price was so cheap I intended to carry it and didn't mind sending it back to SIG (IMHO that ruins the originality). I found it at a LGS for ~<$425 IIRC.





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