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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Sig 516: CA Featureless Build

SCREW YOU PATRICK MAY, ROBERT SALONGA, AND MECURY NEWS!!!!

Idiots can't even use spell check nor utilize proper firearms nomenclature.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/12/heres-the-lowdown-on-reuben-fosters-assault-weapon/

On the sigtalk forum, there’s a discussion about how a Sig Sauer can be modified to make it legal in California — removing the grip is one such modification. Other weapons manufacturers looking to sell in Cailfornia [sic] used to outfit semiautomatic rifles with a “bullet button” which requires a special button to be depressed — fittingly, by the tip of a rifle round — to release the clip [sic], to meet the state’s fixed-magazine requirement. But that workaround was outlawed last year by the state Legislature.






EDIT: Completely replaced post #1 to include all relevant data and updates from later posts. . .

Hey Siggers,

Documenting my featureless build on the Sig Sauer 516 Patrol Short-Piston AR-15. What better way than to do so on CA's #1 firearms forum?

If you are not familiar with CA firearms legislation, see here:
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/regagunfaqs

Basically, many firearms are banned by name and for those that aren't, CA has defined certain "ASSault Weapon" features. To combat this, local CA firearms enthusiasts developed what is known as the "Bullet Button" magazine lock. Negating the detachable magazine function allows you to retain all other features with exception to other items banned by name such as silencers. Legally owned magazines over 10 rounds CANNOT be attached to a semiautomatic rifle utilizing a magazine lock.

What does "featureless" mean? Well, it means if I remove the "ASSault Weapon" features as defined in CA PC, I may utilize the standard magazine release, the oh so nice ambidextrous magazine release, and any legally owned magazines over 10 rounds. NY has a similar situation and frankly, they're worse off than CA.


The following is my documented journey to hopefully aid other members/newbs in their firearms enthusiast journeys or at least provide a good laugh to those dastardly members that moved to free states.

Why a AR platform and specifically the Sig 516? A few reasons. . .
1. Parts compatibility of the AR platform

2. My other semi-auto rifles are also piston driven: Sig 556 Gen2 Classic and DSA/Imbel FAL; granted they're long stroke gas-piston designs, but I digress.

3. I tried DI a while back and absolutely hated the gas in my facial region; quickly sold the rifle.

4. The Sig AR line has inherent ambi features and enhancements:
QD cups on the receiver and rails
Extended bolt catch
Ambi Safety (missing in this particular rifle; likely generational)
Ambi Mag catch/release (missing in this particular rile; either generational or removed by original FFL)

5. I was going to purchase a new Sig M400, but found this 516 for about the same price as the M400, if not cheaper.

6. Let's face it, I'm also a Sig fanboy. lol


OEM Form purchased in a transaction from a member of my local firearms forum. As far as I can tell, I'm the 3rd owner.



Removed relevant CA "ASSault Weapon" features as defined in CA PC:
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/genchar2
Flash hider
Pistol Grip
Telescoping Stock


Replacements / Add-ons:
Surefire SFMB 556 SOCOM Muzzle Brake:
http://www.surefire.com/sfmb-556-1-2-28.html

Norgon Ambi Mag Release (OEM Sig Ambi Mag Release was missing):
Ambi-Catch™

Odinworks XMR Extended Mag Release:
XMR-Extended Mag Release

Thordsen Customs FRS-15 Stock Kit (Enhanced):
FRS-15 Stock Kits - FRS-15 Gen II Rifle Stock | Thordsen Customs

CAA Cheekriser:
CAA CP1 Cheek Rise (Black) | Thordsen Customs

Battle Arms Development 90 Degree Ambi Safety Selector with Crank Levers:
http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/bad-***-od-ambi-safety-selector-cerakote-magpul-od-green

Magpul XTM Handstop Kit:
https://www.magpul.com/products/xtm®-hand-stop-kit

Magpul MBUS Pro LR Sight Combo:
https://www.magpul.com/products/mbus®-pro-lr-adjustable-sight-–-rear
https://www.magpul.com/products/mbus®-pro-sight-–-front

Magpul Enhanced Trigger Guard (Not Pictured):
https://www.magpul.com/products/enhanced-trigger-guard--aluminum-–-ar15-m4

Magpul MS4 Sling (Not Pictured):
https://www.magpul.com/products/ms4-dual-qd-sling-gen-2






Things learned:
When using the FRS-15 stock, the Battle Arms ambi safety right side requires either a thin lever or short crank. I went with standard crank and it's affecting my palm area. 45 degree selector or shorter throw is mandatory; thumb is too short to full rotate to fire.

Thordsen buffer tube cover slides a bit back under fire. I've tightened down the allen screws as much as I could, but it still does this. Not a big deal. I may add some filler to close the gap between the end of the buffer tube and inside the Thordsen cover.

Norgon ambi mag release is a real nice touch. I haven't handled the OEM Sig ambi release, but I have a good feeling that the Norgon is better ergonomically and quality wise.

Odinworks XMR or other extended mag release is mandatory for me. The XMR has slop/play/wiggle on the Sig 516 lower. Not too bad, but I would've liked it a bit more stable.

The BB spring does NOT work with the standard mag release. I've been on this forum for a while now and oddly have never read about this. Wish I knew that before hand, but good thing I a standard release spring lying around.

CAA Cheekriser is absolutely not needed with iron sights and likely will not be needed with a low mounted scope on this platform.

Magpul MBUS PRO LR combo is super slim and dead on accurate. Used the 50 meter/25 meter conversion target from ARF.Com to sight in the rifle. Tight groupings at 50, but I will need to test the elevation knob at longer ranges.

I haven't figured out my QD cup "sweet spots" for the sling. I'll probably stick to 2 point, but I'll keep playing with it.


Additional, soon to be or considered modifications/upgrades. . .

Return BADASS 90 Degree levers and purchase Ares Armor 55 Degree Ambi Safety.
Reason: Ares Ambi has basically 360 Degree lever placement. BADASS 45 Degree version requires modification to use in normal receivers which would void the warranty of the part. Ergonomically, the Ares Armor version would be best given the ability to place the levers where ever you wanted.
Gavel Ambidextrous Safety - Ares Armor Inc Builds quality Rifle components, for less

Replacing OEM charging handle with Armageddon GMS-15 charging handle. Not necessary, but would be a nice touch to complete the ambi functionality of the rifle and in the event that I add a supplemental long range DI upper.
Charging Handle | Armageddon Tactical

Lancer Extended CF Handguard? Not really a fan of the CF or requirement to remove the guard to clean, but it's the only real option out there without extensive customization. I may just hold off for a while. Hopefully, Sig starts selling the new style guards separately or I find an alternative route.
Sig Sauer Replacement Handguards - LCH516-CX-L Replacement Handguard for Sig 516 - Extended Length w/Top Rail

Probably going to add an inexpensive tactical scope. Nothing hardcore, just a range/training tool. 1x4 or 1x6 would be ideal. I'm thinking the Primary Arms 1x6.
http://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_1_6X_Scope_with_Patented_ACSS_Reticle_p/paps1-6x.htm


Side note: Black Rain Ordinance uses the FRS stock and similar features in one of their builds for CA/NY owners:



Thanks for viewing. More updates to come. . .
 

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New Sig 516 Owner!

Congrats on the 516, I am sure you will enjoy it. Rainer and AXTS say it may or may not fit the 516. When I called them, they told me flat out it would not, however, after reading several posts here by guys who had them, I decided to get one when I caught them on sale at Primary Arms a few months ago. I did not notice it initially, but finally realized that while the Raptor works fine, it does bind slightly at the end of the pull if you pull the charging handle to full extension. I have never had a problem running it, but be aware it may bind. It seems the channel on the bottom rubs a little on the top of bolt carrier where the piston contacts (the gas piston equivalent of the gas key).

I have that and the BCM Gunfighter (lefty and had to try both), and while the Gunfighter is nice, I prefer the Raptor a little more. The larger grip surface on the handle is a little easier on an ungloved hand.

Outside of California, Gen 2 516's have right handed safeties. I put a BAD-CASS on mine, and like it a lot. They do have ambi mag releases and a bolt catch on the left side on the non-CA models.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the experience info, Lizard. Safeties aren't restricted in CA so I have the ambi safety.

I've read that about the raptor also. Owners have basically kept mock charging the weapon until the handle "breaks in" then good to go after that although they've mentioned aluminum shavings from the raptor.

I'm guessing it's due to Sig's tight tolerances and Ranier's larger than normal CH in an attempt to fit a variety of uppers.
 

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Interesting. I haven't heard of shavings from the Raptor and mine is lose enough I could just barely notice the binding. Are you saying your gun came stock with an ambi safety, or did you add it?
 

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Sounds like someone bought a Sig upper and built the lower.
 

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That's interesting on the ambi safeties. They seem to go back and forth on whether or not these are a standard feature. Mine came without the ambi safety, but I recall seeing earlier literature from Sig stating they had them. They also swap around on the furniture that comes with them. Mine had a Sig-branded stock, that wasn't bad but a little sloppy, and a Magpul MOE grip. Later ones seem to have the Sig stock or a CTR, but with the OEM Sig grip. Never know what you'll get unless you are looking at it on the rack at the LGS I suppose.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
That's interesting on the ambi safeties. They seem to go back and forth on whether or not these are a standard feature. Mine came without the ambi safety, but I recall seeing earlier literature from Sig stating they had them. They also swap around on the furniture that comes with them. Mine had a Sig-branded stock, that wasn't bad but a little sloppy, and a Magpul MOE grip. Later ones seem to have the Sig stock or a CTR, but with the OEM Sig grip. Never know what you'll get unless you are looking at it on the rack at the LGS I suppose.
Exactly! It's like Sig had a parts bin during furniture install lol.
 

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Congrats on your new acquisition.

I've had my Gen 2 for a few years now and love it. I think mine was made in August 2012 and came with Magpul OEM grip and stock, Sig branded quad rail, and a standard safety selector (non-ambi).

There seems to have been a ton of variations being shipped out of the factory over the last 3 years. Looking at the 2015 Sig Sauer catalog, the 516 they picture looks a lot different than mine. I've seen the SIG logo stamped on the lower receiver on some of the newer 516's and kinda wish mine had it too. :cool:
 

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I've seen the SIG logo stamped on the lower receiver on some of the newer 516's and kinda wish mine had it too. :cool:
The SIG USA Garden Maze logo actually looks good on the sides of its AR rifles and 1911s.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)

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New Sig 516 Owner!

One thing to note on those threads with gas valve settings, some versions of the 516 manual incorrectly identify the settings on the valve and/or show early Gen1 gas valves and settings. We have a few threads here dealing with that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Have any of you tried the VLTR CASV system on the 516 Patrol by chance?

A member of a few other forums used this on his 516 pistol so I'm curious if anyone's mocked it on the Patrol version. There's a cutout that "looks" like it may work, but I don't have my rifle out of jail yet to check.

He also modded it to work with a 556 Patrol.







Here's the tech details. We'd want the version with the cut out:

CASV-EL
Handguard length 8.39” with cutout for sight tower
Overall length 13.85 inches
Weight 13.5 oz
Width 2.1 inches
Overall height 2.2 inches
Rail thickness 0.47 inches
Interior diameter 1.5 inches
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Here she is. CA compliant and able to drop mags freely!

I just finished about an hour ago. Please excuse the crappy photos. I'll take more later.

OEM Form





EDIT: Updated with better photos and additional info:

Featureless rifle build on a Sig Sauer 516 Patrol Short-Piston AR-15

Add-ons:
Surefire SFMB 556 SOCOM Muzzle Brake:
http://www.surefire.com/sfmb-556-1-2-28.html

Norgon Ambi Mag Release (OEM Sig Ambi Mag Release was missing):
http://www.norgon.com/Home_files/AmbiCatch.htm

Odinworks XMR Extended Mag Release:
http://www.odinworks.com/ODIN_Works_XMR_p/acc-xmr.htm

Thordsen Customs FRS-15 Stock Kit (Enhanced):
http://www.thordsencustoms.com/frs-15-stock.htm

CAA Cheekriser:
http://www.thordsencustoms.com/shop/PARTS-AND-ACCESSORIES/p/CAA-CHEEK-RISE-x780384.htm

Battle Arms Development 90 Degree Ambi Safety Selector with Crank Levers:
http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/bad-***-od-ambi-safety-selector-cerakote-magpul-od-green

Magpul XTM Handstop Kit:
https://www.magpul.com/products/xtm®-hand-stop-kit

Magpul MBUS Pro LR Sight Combo:
https://www.magpul.com/products/mbus®-pro-lr-adjustable-sight-–-rear
https://www.magpul.com/products/mbus®-pro-sight-–-front

Magpul Enhanced Trigger Guard (Not Pictured):
https://www.magpul.com/products/enhanced-trigger-guard--aluminum-–-ar15-m4

Magpul MS4 Sling (Not Pictured):
https://www.magpul.com/products/ms4-dual-qd-sling-gen-2







Things learned: using the FRS-15 stock, the Battle Arms ambi right side requires either a thin lever or short crank. I went with standard crank and it's affecting my palm area. 45 degree selector is mandatory; thumb is too short to full rotate to fire.

Norgon ambi mag release is a real nice touch. Odinworks XMR is mandatory for me, but has slop/play/wiggle on the Sig 516 lower. Not too bad, but I would've liked it a bit more stable. I also learned that the BB spring does NOT work with the standard mag release. Good thing I had one lying around.

CAA Cheekriser is absolutely not needed with iron sights.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Thanks!

Additional, soon to be changes. . .

Returning BADASS 90 Degree levers for Ares Armor 55 Degree Ambi Safety.
Reason: 360 Degree lever placement. BADASS 45 Degree version requires modification to use in normal receivers which would void the warranty of the part. Ergonomically, the Ares Armor version would be best given the ability to place the levers where ever you wanted.

Gavel Ambidextrous Safety - Ares Armor Inc Builds quality Rifle components, for less


Replacing OEM charging handle with Armageddon GMS-15 charging handle.
Charging Handle | Armageddon Tactical


Lancer Extended CF Handguard
Not really a fan of the CF or requirement to remove the guard to clean, but it's the only real option out there without extensive customization. I may just hold off for a while. Hopefully, Sig starts selling the new style guards separately or I find an alternative route.
Sig Sauer Replacement Handguards - LCH516-CX-L Replacement Handguard for Sig 516 - Extended Length w/Top Rail


Probably going to add an inexpensive tactical scope. 1x4 or 1x6 would be ideal. I'm thinking the Primary Arms 1x6.
http://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_1_6X_Scope_with_Patented_ACSS_Reticle_p/paps1-6x.htm
 
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