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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
"Special Forces" ie DEVGRU also shoot over 10,000 rounds a year. Tip of the spear for them is hits to stop on a Center of Mass target about 18", not 7,8,or 9's getting scored. They train in live fire shoot houses and kill one of their own annually, too, sadly enough. While getting some tips from competition pros has been done for a long time, competition pros rarely suffer the mental conditioning of participating on a 2 way range. Where professionals can trade expertise it's great, but it's not a tiered "My way is always better than yours." Not even.

I would offer than a national Simunitions champion may well best an Open Class shooter any day of the week. One issue would be the restrictive gun handling and safety protocols they all have to perform or get eliminated. A combat shooter just needs to keep from shooting himself, his teammates, or creating unnecessary collateral damage. Muzzling? Sure, its worked on but again - they lose one service member a year. That's the tip of the spear.

No doubt this offers an incremental improvement for those in the top 5% of shooters nationally. There is a qualifying negative however - the other 95% of shooters won't see any advantage as they can't use the small percentage improvement. I could throw in an hot rod analogy but it would be misunderstood - the point is any technical improvements for Race Gunz are exactly that. Yet our culture tends to worship the altar of LOOKING like a top level competitor, so we will see these getting installed on carry or field pistols shoved into a non comforming holster.

The pics are a big help to understanding the real market niche for this product. Race Gunz isn't CCW isn't tactical. And not everybody shoots with high thumbs - it's just the current trend. Like wearing IWB in a open carry state, if you have some reasons you need to keep extra concealed it's your decision, but it's not everybody's decision.
In agreement, those on a two-way firing range have different mental fortitude and stresses that don't compare at all to competition. From a purely bio-mechanical engineering standpoint is what is meant, just saying it gives a bit of advantage, to where the average shooter can benefit if they want to get back on target faster. Just helps, like a trigger job can help.
 

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Hey everyone, just saw this and going to upgrade my Sigs so spreading the word! Align Tactical has a website and Instagram page that has a lot of good info to read up. Lot of holster options and fits many existing holsters that fit gas pedals. Mag release is sweet too! Check it out!

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Bad design and construction. Too bad these guys have not followed the concept. Flat pedals for thumb assists have been tried for years and they cause windage and grip problems. Flat pedals only control one of four axis of recoil that unbalance the other 3. Some compare to Gas Pedal, but it is weaker steel S7 that has been know to fail in this application. Does not help with opposable grip, and protrudes farther from gun than Gas Pedal. Better than nothing but they obviously dont understand physics of recoil and physio kinetics of hand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 · (Edited)
Bad design and construction. Too bad these guys have not followed the concept. Flat pedals for thumb assists have been tried for years and they cause windage and grip problems. Flat pedals only control one of four axis of recoil that unbalance the other 3. Some compare to Gas Pedal, but it is weaker steel S7 that has been know to fail in this application. Does not help with opposable grip, and protrudes farther from gun than Gas Pedal. Better than nothing but they obviously dont understand physics of recoil and physio kinetics of hand.
Sounds like Go Guns doesn't like the competition and is launching a smear campaign because they're feeling threatened... LOL. Tells everything I need to know about your company. Seriously Go Guns, everyone knows S7 Tool Steel is way stronger than a medium carbon steel like 1144, for crying out loud, some make AR15 Bolts out of it... AR15 bolts take a million times the pressure with locking and unlocking a higher pressure rifle cartridge. May not be mil-spec but is way stronger and more expensive. Have NEVER seen a AR15 "bolt" made from 1144... It would not hold up and nobody would buy it.
Xtreme Performance Bolt (XPB) Carrier Group in DLC and let's not forget Barrett's .50 BMG Anti-materiel precision rifle S7 Bolts if AR isn't strong enough (design section) Barrett M99 - Wikipedia

MIL-SPEC Bolts are made from Carpenter 158 and lets see how THAT compares...

Carpenter 158
  • Tensile Strength: 1103 MPa
  • Yield Strength: 931 MPa
S7 Tool Steel
  • Tensile Strength: 2030 MPa
  • Yield Strength: 1520 MPa
1144 "medium" carbon steel (used in Gas Pedal)
  • Tensile Strength: 745 MPa
  • Yield Strength: 620 MPa

I'd say not only do they understand material science better they understand recoil better... as the sights and muzzle flips up and that is where you want the most surface area. Does a ransom spring sideways? World's fastest open class shooters have been doing just fine with tricked out $4,000-$6,000 custom built 2011s and frame mounted thumb rests. Guess also CZ doesn't know what they are doing with their competition guns. My gripe with thumb rests have been most were too big and couldn't fit any holsters. Also your thumb doesn't lay flat on those rests but rolls the edge of the thumb on it. The new one Align came out with is angled to fully contour to the natural angle of your thumb. I'm gripping my pistol now and sure enough, my thumb naturally rolls about 10-20 degrees... You don't have to apply odd sideways pressure into the gun... just stiffen it. I've shot without a thumb rest and never "push" my thumb... thumbing the gun sideways. Play nice, it will make people respect your company more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 · (Edited)
Told about this and had to look for myself... little conflicting info, on "Flat pedals for thumb assists have been tried for years and they cause windage and grip problems." and says it doesn't help the "opposable grip" ,when the SAME website advertises their "flat" pedal is the "fastest way to shoot" for 2011s, not only that... it's "proven" with their Assist "Opposabe? grip".. but...only scientifically works for 2011s and not P320 as physics are different...?
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
Having too much fun with this... lest anyone forget where 99.9999% of recoil goes when reading "four axis of recoil that unbalance the other 3" be sure to explain "the concept" in scientific detail if you think these girls "obviously dont understand physics of recoil ", as they are the real experts.

Hand Revolver Gesture Finger Thumb


Green Plant Revolver Air gun Grass
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Mailman finally came!!! Looks like Christmas came early :0D
Align Tactical's thumb rest lever just came out like a week or two before Shot Show 2022 and not sure if they are going to have a booth, but they are getting the word out now.
Was giddy because those folks make a really great mag release that I swapped on my grip modules so this was a no brainer.

Just installed one of these puppies and it feels effen AWESOME! Excellent quality, finish, and my thumb just plops down where it should!
Can REALLY glue my pistol into my paws and super pumped to hit the range! Where has this been hiding all this time!!!
Had some of my pals handle it and they immediately placed orders, LOL. One of whom was running another unmentionable product... for years and became an instant convert.
He's got some land, so we'll be shooting it this evening.

Air gun Trigger Revolver Cosmetics Gun barrel
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Just got back from test firing my new Align Tactical Thumb Rest with my buddy and this thing friggen Rocks!!! We were laughing because we couldn't stop the sheepish grinning. Those sights just kept tracking perfectly back on target and I'd say it cut muzzle flip by at least half if not more! It was such a pleasure to shoot comfortably and the control was fantastic! Felt like a whole new gun, or more like an extension of my hand! Started just firing to feel the cadence and pushing the speed faster and faster. Was running Bill drills and for the first time ever was able to hit 2 seconds all A zone hits!... keep in mind the fastest I've ever done before was 2.5 seconds without throwing a shot, so half a second for me is Huge! I'm going to start looking for a holster as this baby has spoiled me and I've got a whole new gun for cheap!!! I'll be laughing at anyone who says "height over bore" snicker snicker, Glock, snicker, P320, because with this thumb rest, it levels the playing field with the best of pistols! Even my buddy couldn't believe how much better he liked it and ran it over his now legacy part. He made me give him one of my extra thumb rests that I didn't install yet because he didn't want to wait for his order.. So he'll give me "his" order when it arrives next week. He's playing with it now and it fit his Red Hill holster he games with. I'm looking at probably getting the Black Scorpion gear made for these parts because I've heard about the top notch quality, slick draws, and I like the way it attaches to the drop hanger most. Think I'll pour a glass of Bourbon or smoke a cigar to celebrate...
 

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One way to tell Align Tactical is about 20 years behind the curve is they call it a "thumb rest"
which leads to poor shooting. You dont rest the thumb you actively engage it. About the comment Gas Pedal racing Pedals are flat, not so, they are angled to work in conjunction with the Opp Wing. And yes the physics of 1911 or considerably different than P320. Recoil vectors are similar but different. Each Gas Pedal assist is balance to be in exact right place for that particular firearm.
Sounds like Go Guns doesn't like the competition and is launching a smear campaign because they're feeling threatened... LOL. Tells everything I need to know about your company. Seriously Go Guns, everyone knows S7 Tool Steel is way stronger than a medium carbon steel like 1144, for crying out loud, some make AR15 Bolts out of it... AR15 bolts take a million times more pressure with locking and unlocking a higher pressure rifle cartridge. May not be mil-spec but is way stronger and more expensive. Have NEVER seen a AR15 "bolt" made from 1144... It would not hold up and nobody would buy it.
Xtreme Performance Bolt (XPB) Carrier Group in DLC
MIL-SPEC Bolts are made from Carpenter 158 and lets see how THAT compares...

Carpenter 158
  • Tensile Strength: 1103 MPa
  • Yield Strength: 931 MPa
S7 Tool Steel
  • Tensile Strength: 2030 MPa
  • Yield Strength: 1520 MPa
1144 "medium" carbon steel (used in Gas Pedal)
  • Tensile Strength: 745 MPa
  • Yield Strength: 620 MPa

I'd say not only do they understand material science better they understand recoil better... as the sights and muzzle flips up and that is where you want the most surface area. Does a ransom spring sideways? World's fastest open class shooters have been doing just fine with tricked out $4,000-$6,000 custom built 2011s and frame mounted thumb rests. Guess also CZ doesn't know what they are doing with their competition guns. My gripe with thumb rests have been most were too big and couldn't fit any holsters. Also your thumb doesn't lay flat on those rests but rolls the edge of the thumb on it. The new one Align came out with is angled to fully contour to the natural angle of your thumb. I'm gripping my pistol now and sure enough, my thumb naturally rolls about 10-20 degrees... You don't have to apply odd sideways pressure into the gun... just stiffen it. I've shot without a thumb rest and never "push" my thumb... thumbing the gun sideways. Play nice, it will make people respect your company more.
VERY Deceptive incorrect information.
Steel S7 vs sintered and QPQ 1144. S7 is good general purpose steel. However you cannot beat 1144 when sintered and coated. It is extremely hard and wear resistant that S7 can't touch.
About our design, Winning dont lie. Gas Pedal assist were first and only device to facilitate shooting with opposable grip on carry gun, which is much easier to learn and way more reproducible and consistent under stress.
Align Tactical is so yesterday,
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 · (Edited)
One way to tell Align Tactical is about 20 years behind the curve is they call it a "thumb rest"
which leads to poor shooting. You dont rest the thumb you actively engage it. About the comment Gas Pedal racing Pedals are flat, not so, they are angled to work in conjunction with the Opp Wing. And yes the physics of 1911 or considerably different than P320. Recoil vectors are similar but different. Each Gas Pedal assist is balance to be in exact right place for that particular firearm.

VERY Deceptive incorrect information.
Steel S7 vs sintered and QPQ 1144. S7 is good general purpose steel. However you cannot beat 1144 when sintered and coated. It is extremely hard and wear resistant that S7 can't touch.
About our design, Winning dont lie. Gas Pedal assist were first and only device to facilitate shooting with opposable grip on carry gun, which is much easier to learn and way more reproducible and consistent under stress.
Align Tactical is so yesterday,
Go Guns. can understand you want to sell your product and are worried that a ledge is going to impact that, but you're bad mouthing another company with misinformation, and that doesn't sit well with some in the audience.. Not only that, the way you communicate isn't just an smear on another company but indirectly applies to readers too.

"20 years behind the curve is they call it a "thumb rest""
Meaning anyone here who refers to the term "thumb rest" instead of your product's trademark is 20 years behind the time?
Google that term and it pulls up every major manufacturer that competes against you. Including CZ, Armory Craft, Align Tactical, as well as the entire competitive world who isn't running your product.

And what can it be called that people know what it is?... They used a universal generic term that everyone here knows. They never mention "rest your thumb on it", they tell people on the website to Lock your thumb against it.

When you say "yes the physics of 1911 or considerably different than P320"
Shoot... I'm not going to even touch that...

As far as materials, if a Barrett .50 BMG Anti-materiel precision rifle Bolt ain't enough being made from S7 - (design section) Barrett M99 - Wikipedia - and your pedals break in half from a little bouncing of the slide... A slide that you could put your thumb behind and it won't rip it off, just induces a malfunction (I've tried it), then at least the coating is strong. Bruce Gray of Grayguns, who's done development and consulting work for Sig on their pistols, including the P320, and started Sig's shooting team has said "That’s the thing, the factory parts, the S7 tool steel MIM’d hammers and sears are excellent. Don’t let anyone tell you that there’s something wrong with SIG’s parts." Which means that Sig Sauer themselves use it for their most "critical" components on their excellent P-series pistols...

Align Tactical has a Lifetime Warranty vs. one you need to replace all the time with no refund policy. They figured out what works and even if it did break, the cost of keeping elite shooters who show off their product and endorsement is probably worth it. So Align Tactical has my vote.

If you didn't see spec comparison of the indestructible Powder metal PIM part in the gas pedal, which is just a coarser and lower quality branch of MIM, then refer to the numbers again.
S7 Tool Steel (used in Align Tactical)
  • Tensile Strength: 2030 MPa
  • Yield Strength: 1520 MPa
1144 "medium" carbon steel (used in Gas Pedal)
  • Tensile Strength: 745 MPa
  • Yield Strength: 620 MPa

I've read forums here where people still leave baffled and confused at push forward towards the muzzle, don't push down on the pedal or it stresses it, push in to the right so your finger don't slip, oh you're putting too much pressure the wrong way, less angle... very scientific... yes. I keep it simple.

Lastly, if you take a world class athlete shooter and give them anything... they will still be a world class athlete... feeding them Wheaties doesn't give big cereal the credit. Your 2011 rest is flat, not sure why you say it isn't as the pics say it all Gas Pedal® Racer’s Cut – GoGun USA and physics doesn't magically break down because it's a different gun. Not doing another play-by-play walk through of talking points and frankly I believe most people here can make their own mind on what's real and works based on their experience. Just consider what type of light you are trying to shine as it will reflect on your products either favorably or not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
If anyone in the forum would like to add constructive thoughts or content based on the original post, you're welcome to. thanks
 

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Go Guns. quite a few of us understand you want to sell your product and are worried that a ledge is going to upset that, but the point was you're attacking another company with misinformation, and that never sits well with a certain audience.. Not only that, the way you communicate isn't just an attack on another company but to all of us readers who apparently need to be told by you what works because we aren't smart enough to figure it out on our own. Let's see how we can illustrate how grating it is as to help you understand...

"20 years behind the curve is they call it a "thumb rest""
You've basically told everyone here on the forum that has ever referred to the term "thumb rest" instead of your product's trademark is 20 years behind the time.
If anyone is 20 years behind the time, it is someone who hasn't heard of Google because that term pulls up every major manufacturer that competes against you... like I said before, guess CZ doesn't know what they are doing, Armory Craft doesn't know what they are doing, Align Tactical doesn't know, as well as the entire competitive world and everyone who isn't running your product.

And what pray tell is Align going to call it that people know what it is?... gas pedal? wait that is trademarked... let's see, thumb brake? sounds like breaking a thumb... how about Ledge... oh wait, there are Hiene sights trademarked that, oh I got it... "THUMB SHELF", sounds like Elf and you can place a book on it... They used a universal generic term that everyone here knows. They never said "rest your thumb on it", they tell people on the website to LOCK your thumb against it, and most people are smart enough to figure it out.

I'm not interested in a "opp wing", not buying it, and when you say "yes the physics of 1911 or considerably different than P320"
Shoot... I'm not going to even touch that...

As far as materials, if a Barrett .50 BMG Anti-materiel precision rifle Bolt ain't enough being made from S7 - (design section) Barrett M99 - Wikipedia - and your pedals break in half from a little bouncing of the slide... A slide that you could put your thumb behind and it won't rip it off, just induces a malfunction (I've tried it), then I'm happy you found "coatings" are strong. Align Tactical has a LIFETIME Warranty and you tell people on your website to replace it all the time and you have a no refund policy. Maybe they figured out what works and even if it did break, the cost of keeping elite shooters who show off their product and endorsement is probably worth it. So Align Tactical has my vote.

Also you happen to be saying that Bruce Gray of Grayguns, who's done development and consulting work for Sig on their pistols, including the P320, and started Sig's shooting team doesn't know what he's saying when he says "That’s the thing, the factory parts, the S7 tool steel MIM’d hammers and sears are excellent. Don’t let anyone tell you that there’s something wrong with SIG’s parts." Which also implies that Sig Sauer themselves doesn't know what they are doing either for their most "critical" components on their excellent P-series pistols... What's the US military to do?

Since you didn't read above about the indestructible Powder metal PIM part in the gas pedal, which is just a coarser and lower quality branch of MIM, here are the numbers again.
S7 Tool Steel (used in Align Tactical)
  • Tensile Strength: 2030 MPa
  • Yield Strength: 1520 MPa
1144 "medium" carbon steel (used in Gas Pedal)
  • Tensile Strength: 745 MPa
  • Yield Strength: 620 MPa

I've read forums here where people still leave baffled and confused at push forward towards the muzzle, don't push down on the pedal or it stresses it, push in to the right so your finger don't slip, oh you're putting too much pressure the wrong way, less angle... very scientific... yes, it's all here for people to find as I'm not going to post it.

Lastly, if you take a world class athlete shooter and give them anything... they will still be a world class athelete... feeding them Wheaties doesn't give big cereal the credit. Your rest is flat... not sure why you say it isn't... the pics say everything Gas Pedal® Racer’s Cut – GoGun USA and physics doesn't magically break down because it's a different gun. This is the last response I'm going to do a play-by-play walk through of talking points with you as I'm not finding it productive and frankly I believe most people here can make their own mind on what's real and important based on their experience. Just consider what type of light you are trying to shine as it will reflect on your products either favorably or not.
Woah, new guy relax you have your new toy and enjoy it. Don't have to go off on an angry tangent and then claim to speak for others on this forum or thread.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Woah, new guy relax you have your new toy and enjoy it. Don't have to go off on an angry tangent and then claim to speak for others on this forum or thread.
Thanks paularmola, yeah enjoying it and didn't mean to write a book and was being civil or trying to be.
 

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RANTS RANTS. Chris Ranger is a treasure trove of misinformation. I wouldn't buy anything from a guy who rants like he does. For GoGun USA, experience, winning, and satisfied customers speak for themselves, Just to set record straight, we are not in it for money only to make self defense easier. We license our technology for a song to encourage others who do it correctly.
 
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