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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I received my 2 triggers Saturday late. About 7 PM.
The triggers were ordered for my M11A1 and a P229 SAS.

The instructions called for the pre-travel delrin to be filed down to 0.03"
to 0.02" to get a DA reset. The original dimentions of the delrin was 0.065".

I removed the right grip plate, released the pressure off the sear spring
and removed the safety lever since the M11A1 has an SRT trigger system and this way
it would be esier to remove the trigger bar.
I proceded to remove the trigger bar spring, trigger bar, original trigger,
trigger pivot pin, slide catch lever, take down lever, and locking block.

Installed new trigger and proceeded to reassemble frame and then I realized that
the lenght of the pre-travel delrin would not let me seat the locking block all the way.
The gun was decocked and the trigger pivot pin had the notches facing down as always.

Removed everything again and filed down delrin to 0.035". I took a gamble.
Reinstalled everything again and the locking block snapped in with no problem like
I have done dozens of times on all my Sigs.

At this point, the trigger did not reset in DA.
I turned the frame upside down, pulled the trigger all the way back and carefully filed down the delrin with a fine flat and narrow file making sure I did not scratch the frame.

After several tries, SUCCESS !!!, the trigger reset with no pre-travel.
Final length of delrin 0.018".

Next was adjusting the over travel set screw. That part was fast and easy.
Turned set screw with provided allen wrench until the trigger did not release
the hammer on DA. Backed out set screw until hammer released.

Assembled slide and frame together and function tested the gun.

Last thing was to make sure the pretravel screw did not move on me.
I advanced the screw two 1/2 turns towards the back of the trigger.
Dabbed some clear nail polish on the threads, and backed out the screw towards the front 2 1/2 turns.

Total time 1 1/2 hours considering it was my first, very minimal instructions
and careful not to screw up.

Sunday morning I tackled my P229 SAS in 25 minutes !!!!!!
Final delrin lenght 0.015".

CONCLUSION: I am very satisfied with the end results. No pre-travel and my SRT action has been improved by the over-travel adjustment. I am a self taught amateur armorer learning by doing.
I never outgrew my Erector set.

As usual all these parts have the disclaimer that they should be installed by a qualified armorer or gunsmith.
 

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Congratulations on two successful assemblies! Now, where the rubber meets the road... how did they perform? Live fire is the ultimate test!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Congratulations on two successful assemblies! Now, where the rubber meets the road... how did they perform? Live fire is the ultimate test!
Soon I hope.
I need to make some time to get away from my daily responsibilities.
Retired but recently I became 24/7 caregiver.
 

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Similar experience with my new M11A-1 with a wut da when I had no DA at .030.
I used a razor to shave off the Delrin (2 layers of duct tape for protection) and as you stated pretty near all of it to get to DA

Shot this morning.
When all you do is dry fire you do not really know if this is good or not as my older M11A-1 trigger is so sweet and the newer not so sweet in DA particularly.

Shooting however this was very nice not only because of travel and reset but the wider flat trigger is very comfortable something you are not sure of until you are running drills and dropping mags
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The reason for my original post was that I started reading about some members having problems with the installation.
I figured that a detail step by step description will help some.
I think a lot of people thought that it was a plain drop in.
When they saw some fitting required some freaked out.
With a little bit of patience anybody can install it.
 

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I would have liked your detailed analysis before I started installation but alas I have the patience of lightning in a cloud.

I start working on it as soon as i see the envelope in the mailbox

Besides I have taken apart Sigs a few times what could go wrong? :lol:
Doesn't installing 3 triggers previously make me a master Sig armorer?:rolleyes:

My big concern was the sparse instructions and after having removed 75% of the Delrin I still did not have the DA and wondered if I was missing something.

In fairness to Armroycraft I believe they assume you have enough experience to do this and assume a novice will take it to someone qualified.

That would, of course, be common sense but, that is where they went wrong. :fpc:

We are men and men don't need experience or common sense to master any task.
We do some of our best work in total ignorance:drool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I would have liked your detailed analysis before I started installation but alas I have the patience of lightning in a cloud.

I start working on it as soon as i see the envelope in the mailbox
We are alike. We put together the Jungle Jim swing set first, and then when we finish, we start to read the instructions to figure out why we have 3 washers, 1 cross member, 6 bolts and 5 extra nuts.
 

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I would have liked your detailed analysis before I started installation but alas I have the patience of lightning in a cloud.

I start working on it as soon as i see the envelope in the mailbox

Besides I have taken apart Sigs a few times what could go wrong? :lol:
Doesn't installing 3 triggers previously make me a master Sig armorer?:rolleyes:

My big concern was the sparse instructions and after having removed 75% of the Delrin I still did not have the DA and wondered if I was missing something.

In fairness to Armroycraft I believe they assume you have enough experience to do this and assume a novice will take it to someone qualified.

That would, of course, be common sense but, that is where they went wrong. :fpc:

We are men and men don't need experience or common sense to master any task.
We do some of our best work in total ignorance:drool:

Ha! I did the same thing.

Kept filing and filing, but still didn't have DA. Eventually everything lined up, and now it's smooth as silk.
 

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The Art and Science of Writing Instructions

I have two Armory Craft triggers sitting on my workbench awaiting installation this evening.

Reading this thread, I recognize the challenge Armory Craft has in, not only creating and producing something new and very cool, but letting it out of their control into the hands of....gulp...."The Public".....

My wife and I started a small company making a part for the Ford F-150 pickup. When we wrote the installation instructions, we had to try to think of everything someone "MIGHT" do that could hurt themselves when installing our part.

We listed what tools were needed, what the work space should be (level), please turn off the engine, set the parking brake....We provide the torque specs for the bolt and nuts...and people STILL overtighten and pull the studs right out of the product.

When any of us make a mistake like this, we feel bad. One thing we often do for customers is replace the broken part at no charge, and, inevitably someone writes a nice review and we sell a couple more as a result. We also ask for the broken part back, to see what we can learn.

I can imagine Armory Craft having an issue with someone filing the pre-travel Delrin rod down too far....I know I'm going to be careful when I do it!

We also put LOTS of pictures in our instructions (eleven, in fact) to help people see and understand something they are going to do for the first time. I'd encourage Armory Craft to do the same. I have to say, the photography on their website is beautiful.

Finally, ANY set of instructions for installing a gun part MUST include: Make sure the gun is unloaded. Remove all ammunition from the room where you are working, etc....

Alright....enough pontificating....back to work....

Northlight
 

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I can imagine Armory Craft having an issue with someone filing the pre-travel Delrin rod down too far....I know I'm going to be careful when I do it!
Northlight
I am not sure as in not 100% positive but I believe the only thing that happens if you go toooooo far is the pre-travel is longer and one of the reasons for installing "this" trigger is to minimize the DA pre-travel.
So while you may go too far and defeat the intention of reducing that I do not believe you do more than that meaning it will still work fine.

Can someone correct me if I am wrong???
 
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I am not sure as in not 100% positive but I believe the only thing that happens if you go toooooo far is the pre-travel is longer and one of the reasons for installing "this" trigger is to minimize the DA pre-travel.

So while you may go too far and defeat the intention of reducing that I do not believe you do more than that meaning it will still work fine.



Can someone correct me if I am wrong???


This is true. You could shave away the whole nub and it would work fine. The trigger bar and spring will still engage the hammer for reliable DA operation.
 

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You are right....

...it will still work fine.....but...you just might not be happy....particularly if it was your fault that you went too far....and one of the product features is reduced or eliminated.

We ask our customers to spend nearly $100 for our product...and the expectation is it will do exactly as advertised.

I regularly get e-mails or calls from customers with installation issues...and try my best to help them correct things.

No surprise...it's usually someone who didn't read or understand the instructions.

I've got one of my guns apart now, getting ready to install the Armory Craft trigger....

Northlight
 

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Armory trigger quick start.
1) Cut off 80% of Delrin stub before installation.
2) Install the trigger, leaving off the slide. The locking block won'go back in yet.
3) Holding frame upside down, hold trigger back, triple tape in front of Delrin and file it shorter a bit and see if locking block fits in. Repeat until it does. Step 1 done.
4) File lightly and check the double action reset. You will do this repeatedly until it does. If you are patient you can get virtually ZERO take up. Step 2 done.
5) install SA overtravel set screw . Test until zero over travel. Back it off two 1/2 turns. Add touch of blue loctite to threads screw in 1/2 turn and test. Done.

Anyone please comment if you think disagree!
 

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I predicted someone would do this....

...of course, it just happened to be me.:eek:

In the process of installing the first of two Armory Craft triggers (P227 Tactical), I filed the pre-travel pin down just a hair too much...resulting in more movement in the trigger than there could have been (had I been a bit more careful, gone slower, etc., yada yada)

Like others, I filed a little, then put the trigger in and checked to see if it would DA reset. Then took the trigger our and filed a little more...and...oops...too far. Dang.

Took my time on the next trigger (P229 Stainless Elite) and used a brand new super sharp X-Acto blade to shave nearly transparent slivers off the pre-travel pin until the DA reset reliably.

Perfection. Looks and feels good.

Here's the best part: I sent a note to Armory Craft letting them know what I did and asking if the pre-travel pin is pressed in or glued in (starting to think about how I would fix my mistake). Got an almost immediate reply:

"The pin is pressed in. It can be drilled out. What's your address, I'll send you a replacement right away."

Thanks, Armory Craft for creating the new flat trigger for our favorite guns...and for taking good care of your customers!

Northlight
 

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...of course, it just happened to be me.:eek:

In the process of installing the first of two Armory Craft triggers (P227 Tactical), I filed the pre-travel pin down just a hair too much...resulting in more movement in the trigger than there could have been (had I been a bit more careful, gone slower, etc., yada yada)

Like others, I filed a little, then put the trigger in and checked to see if it would DA reset. Then took the trigger our and filed a little more...and...oops...too far. Dang.

Took my time on the next trigger (P229 Stainless Elite) and used a brand new super sharp X-Acto blade to shave nearly transparent slivers off the pre-travel pin until the DA reset reliably.

Perfection. Looks and feels good.

Here's the best part: I sent a note to Armory Craft letting them know what I did and asking if the pre-travel pin is pressed in or glued in (starting to think about how I would fix my mistake). Got an almost immediate reply:

"The pin is pressed in. It can be drilled out. What's your address, I'll send you a replacement right away."

Thanks, Armory Craft for creating the new flat trigger for our favorite guns...and for taking good care of your customers!

Northlight
So is the delrin pin plastic? I wonder if it can be swapped out for a metal one or if it even matters.
 

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Looking at this got the wheels turning in my head. Couldn't small hole theoretically be drilled and add a pin to the front of a standard trigger? One could get a pin, and make a small undersized hole and hammer in the pin into place. Then file it down to take out the pre travel? I may take a stab at it with an old trigger I have laying around.
 

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Seems like there is...

...enough area on the trigger to do what you are suggesting...with one additional idea:

Instead of having to file or shave the pre-travel pin, let's drill and tap for an adjustable pin like the one that controls SA over-travel.

Essentially reversing the orientation of the allen-wrench-adjusted SA over-travel pin, putting the delrin part towards the front with the allen head to the rear.

Challenge: Access to the allen head on the back side of the trigger. Not unlike the current shave-the-pin approach, you still have to take the trigger out to adjust the pin length...but if you go too far (like I did) you can adjust the DA pre-travel instead of replacing the pin.

Northlight
 

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...enough area on the trigger to do what you are suggesting...with one additional idea:

Instead of having to file or shave the pre-travel pin, let's drill and tap for an adjustable pin like the one that controls SA over-travel.

Essentially reversing the orientation of the allen-wrench-adjusted SA over-travel pin, putting the delrin part towards the front with the allen head to the rear.

Challenge: Access to the allen head on the back side of the trigger. Not unlike the current shave-the-pin approach, you still have to take the trigger out to adjust the pin length...but if you go too far (like I did) you can adjust the DA pre-travel instead of replacing the pin.

Northlight
I thought about that too, but I don't like the idea of having to Loctite, and worrying about threads backing out. a really tight pin with maybe even some Loctite won't move. I even thought about the same thing for the over travel. A pin that can be pushed in to file down. This to me removes any possibility of the screw moving at any point.
 
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