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The only modifications I make to my carry pistols are the sights (if needed). I’m not worried about having to defend my modifications in court,..I just don’t want to introduce any unreliability into the gun I depend upon for my life. I don’t believe in a lot of changes to triggers, springs, or magazines…but that’s just me.
better sights allow you to aim better and kill more people. Prosecutor is gonna eat you alive. Better change em back.
 

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better sights allow you to aim better and kill more people. Prosecutor is gonna eat you alive. Better change em back.
You do know that you are following the Saul Alinsky Rules For Radicals playbook. Resorting to an attempt to make gun of the other guys point, while great for the interweb, does nothing to advance the conversation. Some of my ECD came with night sights, some didn’t. In a self defense encounter, I doubt seriously that I will bother with a good sight picture. If I am far enough away to need that, I’m looking for cover as I get the F’ outta Dodge.

Just to be clear, Again, my position is pretty simple. IF you have trained enough with your EDC, you don’t need mods. If your firearm needs mods, buy a better firearm. If you can afford mods, you can afford a better unit out of the box. If you have worked on YOU, any mods are superfluous, and may lead to problems long after the echo ends.

You be You. I, on the other hand, want to trust my skills and my choice in EDC to get me home, and keep me free.
 

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After a carreer in design and manufacturing, here are some notes in response to the "questions", above.

A 5.5 lb. trigger is easy enough for any idiot, even a Prosecuting Attorney, to pull the trigger. But it may not be easy enough to actually hit the target and/or avoid hitting innocent bystanders. While the as-designed trigger pull is a fine nominal value, it may not be appropriate or optimal for every shooter.

I doubt that most of the people that design guns are "professional engineers". I would believe that most of them do not have a Bachelors degree in Mechanical Engineering. Further, they are not "Licensed" by their State as "Professional Engineers".

I know that most of the people that make guns are not "professional". They are hired as cheaply as possible, many of which are in foreign countries, and I would bet that the gun companies and the Prosecution, are unable to provide any documented evidence of training of their personnel or sub-contractors, that would qualify them to be called "professional".
I think I follow what you are trying to say. Keep in mind, SIG Sauer will NOT be on the stand with you, and wont be paying your legal bills.
 
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A 5.5 lb. trigger is easy enough for any idiot, even a Prosecuting Attorney, to pull the trigger. But it may not be easy enough to actually hit the target and/or avoid hitting innocent bystanders.
I will disagree with you, respectfully. We had a very long discussion about triggers on another forum. I explained that it is skill set, not gimmicks or light triggers that make the difference. I explained to one member in particular that I use to qualify out to 50 yards with a DA revolver with a 12lb trigger. He didn't believe me until other members explained they also use to qualify out to 50 yards with their service revolvers. And then we started posting qual requirements for different agencies 'back in the day'. So the notion that "it may not be easy enough to actually hit the target and/or avoid hitting innocent bystanders" is ridiculous, no disrespect intended. In fact, I would say that a trigger that is too light is more of a danger than a heavier one provided the person actually knows how to properly shoot a firearm.
While the as-designed trigger pull is a fine nominal value, it may not be appropriate or optimal for every shooter.
The only legitimate consideration would be someone with a disability or an issue that severely limits hand strength. As I've mentioned elsewhere on the board, a little over 2 months ago I broke my wrist...pretty bad. To the tune of a titanium plate and 14 screws. Doing PT now and I'm confident that at some point my hand strength and ROM will return fully. Right now, both are reduced. I can't make a fist or close my fingers enough to even clip my finger nails on my strong hand. But I can pull the trigger on both my P250 DAO and P365. It hurts. I can only do it for a few shots. But I can do it. Fortunately it is my support hand and not my dominant. The point is that I just don't accept someone that isn't disabled or injured that says a 5.5lb trigger is 'too heavy'. Without trying to sound like I'm stirring the pot, a stock trigger on a striker-fired pistol isn't 'too heavy'...it's a lack of skill on the part of the shooter. And they are trying to cover up that lack of skill with a gadget or doodad. If many shooters can hit accurately at extended range with a heavy DA trigger, and YT has many reviewers that routinely shoot at 50 or 80 or longer yards, even with DA pistols then there really is no excuse for not being able to accurately hit at much closer distances with a stock trigger. Especially a striker-fired trigger which is almost a toy.
 

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I still think prosecution has nothing to do with the gun.

Either it's a justified use of deadly force, or not. What you shoot them with is of no significance. Yes, I know the Harold Fish case and such. There will always be exceptions. But there are MANY self defense shootings every year and in many of them, the person defending themselves isn't charged with a crime. The only time a modified gun would come into play is if the investigation determined it was a questionable shoot or that you were administering some sort of vigilante justice by going after a bad guy. If you demonstrate that you made every attempt to AVOID using deadly force, including trying to run away (in states that don't have a Stand Your Ground law), then you more than likely won't have charges filed against you. But if it's questionable, and anyone saw you threaten the person or escalate the situation...then you're in trouble. That's when the prosecution is going to start making statements about the type of gun you were carrying..."Ladies and gentlemen of the jury...he was carrying a Sig Sauer P320....a MILITARY weapon. Why would he do that unless he fancied himself to be some sort of soldier of fortune?".
 

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better sights allow you to aim better and kill more people. Prosecutor is gonna eat you alive. Better change em back.
Better “framing” required. It’s more like…. Better sights are safer as they enhance the likelihood hood of hitting the target thereby reducing the risk of colateral damage. So they are safety features.

This debate is moot for me personally because my EDC is a 229 Legion. Had everything I wanted right out of the box. Only change I made was swapping the GG curved trigger for the GG flat version.
 

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I will disagree with you, respectfully. We had a very long discussion about triggers on another forum. I explained that it is skill set, not gimmicks or light triggers that make the difference. I explained to one member in particular that I use to qualify out to 50 yards with a DA revolver with a 12lb trigger. He didn't believe me until other members explained they also use to qualify out to 50 yards with their service revolvers. And then we started posting qual requirements for different agencies 'back in the day'. So the notion that "it may not be easy enough to actually hit the target and/or avoid hitting innocent bystanders" is ridiculous, no disrespect intended. In fact, I would say that a trigger that is too light is more of a danger than a heavier one provided the person actually knows how to properly shoot a firearm.


The only legitimate consideration would be someone with a disability or an issue that severely limits hand strength. As I've mentioned elsewhere on the board, a little over 2 months ago I broke my wrist...pretty bad. To the tune of a titanium plate and 14 screws. Doing PT now and I'm confident that at some point my hand strength and ROM will return fully. Right now, both are reduced. I can't make a fist or close my fingers enough to even clip my finger nails on my strong hand. But I can pull the trigger on both my P250 DAO and P365. It hurts. I can only do it for a few shots. But I can do it. Fortunately it is my support hand and not my dominant. The point is that I just don't accept someone that isn't disabled or injured that says a 5.5lb trigger is 'too heavy'. Without trying to sound like I'm stirring the pot, a stock trigger on a striker-fired pistol isn't 'too heavy'...it's a lack of skill on the part of the shooter. And they are trying to cover up that lack of skill with a gadget or doodad. If many shooters can hit accurately at extended range with a heavy DA trigger, and YT has many reviewers that routinely shoot at 50 or 80 or longer yards, even with DA pistols then there really is no excuse for not being able to accurately hit at much closer distances with a stock trigger. Especially a striker-fired trigger which is almost a toy.
Tell that to NYPD. When they switched to Glocks over their old revolvers, they had Glock make a new trigger for them that was in excess of 12lbs of pull. This was done to make it harder for them to pull the trigger, similar to revolvers. Just recently they've been working on getting those lowered because of all the misses their officers have that's 100% related to the trigger pull strength. They had several acadamy classes that trained with both versions and the quals with the lesser trigger weights did much better.
 

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Tell that to NYPD. When they switched to Glocks over their old revolvers, they had Glock make a new trigger for them that was in excess of 12lbs of pull. This was done to make it harder for them to pull the trigger, similar to revolvers. Just recently they've been working on getting those lowered because of all the misses their officers have that's 100% related to the trigger pull strength. They had several acadamy classes that trained with both versions and the quals with the lesser trigger weights did much better.
Yes, we've been discussing the reduction in trigger weight on another forum as well. And that is my understanding that it is a work-in-progress. However, I'm going to say it's a training issue and not a trigger issue. Why could police hit a man-sized target at 50 yards with a revolver with a 12lb trigger (back-in-the-day) but they can't hit a man-sized target at more typical 'combat' distances of 7-21 feet in the more modern era?

As an instructor with over 29 years of experience with my former agency, I can tell you that it's because training has been watered down so more folks (that have no business in the industry) can qualify. Or be 'helped' to qualify because, you know, we want to be inclusive and give even the unqualified a fair shake. Which is why we use to qualify out to 50 yards but then it got cut down to 25 yards and finally only out to 15 yards. Which is ridiculous in my professional opinion. For combat shooting I don't even use the sights inside of 15 yards yet I see the new generation struggle at 7 and 15 yards with a striker-fired pistol that only has a 5.5lb trigger!
 

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Yes, we've been discussing the reduction in trigger weight on another forum as well. And that is my understanding that it is a work-in-progress. However, I'm going to say it's a training issue and not a trigger issue. Why could police hit a man-sized target at 50 yards with a revolver with a 12lb trigger (back-in-the-day) but they can't hit a man-sized target at more typical 'combat' distances of 7-21 feet in the more modern era?

As an instructor with over 29 years of experience with my former agency, I can tell you that it's because training has been watered down so more folks (that have no business in the industry) can qualify. Or be 'helped' to qualify because, you know, we want to be inclusive and give even the unqualified a fair shake. Which is why we use to qualify out to 50 yards but then it got cut down to 25 yards and finally only out to 15 yards. Which is ridiculous in my professional opinion. For combat shooting I don't even use the sights inside of 15 yards yet I see the new generation struggle at 7 and 15 yards with a striker-fired pistol that only has a 5.5lb trigger!
Sad thing is that giving these unqualified people a “fair shake” might actually be giving them a death sentence. In addition to putting these inept officers at risk, it also puts your partner and the citizens your are sworn to protect at risk. Sorry for not being more “woke”
on this but unfortunately I can’t help that I’m “awake”.
 

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You do know that you are following the Saul Alinsky Rules For Radicals playbook. Resorting to an attempt to make gun of the other guys point, while great for the interweb, does nothing to advance the conversation. Some of my ECD came with night sights, some didn’t. In a self defense encounter, I doubt seriously that I will bother with a good sight picture. If I am far enough away to need that, I’m looking for cover as I get the F’ outta Dodge.

Just to be clear, Again, my position is pretty simple. IF you have trained enough with your EDC, you don’t need mods. If your firearm needs mods, buy a better firearm. If you can afford mods, you can afford a better unit out of the box. If you have worked on YOU, any mods are superfluous, and may lead to problems long after the echo ends.

You be You. I, on the other hand, want to trust my skills and my choice in EDC to get me home, and keep me free.
How did I know you wouldn’t be able to resist quote and post? 😂
I was being sarcastic in regards to ‘mods’ being shunned here. Sights are mods and according to some in this thread a zealous prosecutor could and might seek out anything you did to your gun to use against you.
Ive trained plenty and have been point shooting for decades. I personally wish they made slick slide guns with no sights on them at all. Overwhelming majority of SD events don’t involve them.
‘sights are for the unenlightened’
 

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How did I know you wouldn’t be able to resist quote and post? 😂
I was being sarcastic in regards to ‘mods’ being shunned here. Sights are mods and according to some in this thread a zealous prosecutor could and might seek out anything you did to your gun to use against you.
Ive trained plenty and have been point shooting for decades. I personally wish they made slick slide guns with no sights on them at all. Overwhelming majority of SD events don’t involve them.
‘sights are for the unenlightened’
^^^😂🤣😉^^^

What would make you think I wouldn’t?
 
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Glocks rule
FIGHT ME!
😳😱🤣😂


That won’t work with me. I have more Sigs than Glocks, but I have a totally ridiculous number of Glocks. 😉

Reading that statement brings up an interesting observation about myself (since we are delving into personal motivations today). While I consider my collection of Glocks totally ridiculous, and have no concerns about a larger collection of Sigs, does that indicate an underlying signess. Hopefully it isn’t terminal.🤔
 

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Glocks rule
FIGHT ME!
😳😱🤣😂


That won’t work with me. I have more Sigs than Glocks, but I have a totally ridiculous number of Glocks. 😉

Reading that statement brings up an interesting observation about myself (since we are delving into personal motivations today). While I consider my collection of Glocks totally ridiculous, and have no concerns about a larger collection of Sigs, does that indicate an underlying signess. Hopefully it isn’t terminal.🤔
Glock...Sig...Taurus, what's the difference? HK is where it's at!

 

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You guys are just trying to get on my last nerve. 😱 I spent yesterday shuttling the Wife and Daughter around to pick out a wedding dress. Ain’t nothing you can do even come close to that trauma.
 

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Only mod I made to my CCW is I added a +1 extension to my mags on my Glock 43.
 

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The last statement is truth. People would rather by the latest aftermarket parts to lighten the trigger or take the creep out of the trigger instead of actually training with the gun first and then deciding if anything needs modified.

Glock owners are the absolute worst offenders of this. I can’t count the number of posts I’ve seen online “just got my first Glock, what mods should I make first”. It’s laughable. Shoot the damn thing first, and not just a few magazines.


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You can substitute "SIG..." for "Glock", as well. Training and practice trumps gadgetry, but proven, sensible "modifications" (good, visible sights and a crisp - or, in some platforms, an improved-as- possible trigger) are the most useful "modifications" and enhance your shooting performance. Contrary to popular belief, you will not "rise to the occasion", you will default to your level of training/expertise. You cannot miss fast enough to win a gunfight, and every bullet fired in any exchange will have a lawyer attached to it. (Think: "Who has the Deeper Pockets, You - or the scumbag(s) who started the fracas?")

Your sidearm is not a talisman that magically wards off evil or makes threats disappear. It is a tool and an extension of your mind and will. The fly in the ointment is that you should never believe your own Press. Shooting/marksmanship is a perishable skill that needs to be honed on a daily basis. Passing a CHL/CCW course is merely a baby step on The Way of The Gun, akin to getting a White Belt at a martial arts school. Get some real training from as many renowned schools/instructors as you can. Other than the money you spent on your carry firearm purchase, it will be the best life insurance money you will ever spend - better, actually.
 

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I will disagree with you, respectfully. We had a very long discussion about triggers on another forum. I explained that it is skill set, not gimmicks or light triggers that make the difference.
To some extent, I will agree with you. I certainly do not believe that a lighter trigger is a useful option for all people under all circumstances. A lighter trigger should not be a crutch for lack of skill, and I would not advocate that all triggers be lighter. Though I do believe that, generally, a less skilled shooter will do better with a lighter trigger than with a heavier trigger. In all cases, the shooter must keep their finger off of the trigger until they are ready to fire.
To some extent, I will disagree with you. Precision shooters (long range and competition) use very light triggers in spite of their considerable skill set. They do this because in spite of their skills, a lighter trigger is less likely to move the weapon from its point of aim.
 

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In all cases, the shooter must keep their finger off of the trigger until they are ready to fire.
THIS!

I don't care if your trigger is 12lbs or 2lbs...your gun will not fire unless you put your booger picker on the bang switch.

If you draw your gun, point it at someone, and place your finger on the trigger....you better be damn sure you intend to kill them and have the legal right to do so. The assertion that "The gun went off because the trigger was too light" is a silly. The gun went off because you put your finger on the trigger and pulled it.
 
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