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I never said it couldn't be used against us. You aren't following closely. What you have very clearly said and have repeated over and over, it's that it will be.

We heard you the first time, continuing to object to our dismissal that it has any bearing in our life is where you keep refusing to accept our rejection.

Life is disappointment. Get used to it.

You've posted in threads about SIG safety issues and you aren't even aware of the "Sell all the SIG's and buy a Glock." tagline on those fake stories?

Anyone who posts in a SIG forum and doesn't support the optimization of any product they make out of fear some DA will go off half cocked with personal vendetta against their specific changes isn't supporting SIG or the forum. You aren't my supervisor and to continue this campaign against product excellence against SIG and their owners is in effect anti gun and anti SIG.

In the last 35 years we've gone from barely half a dozen states allowing CCW to dozens with Open Carry and over 40 with concealed, with a great deal of reciprocity. How has this burgeoning freedom to carry custom firearms loaded open and concealed caused a sudden upsurge in persequtorial conduct by DA's? It hasn't - it's done exactly the opposite, with cases reported daily of armed citizens protecting not only each other but also LEO's.

It's a cacaphanous track record of sucess, and the few who buck that trend are now being challenged at every turn. Only in the few coastal "states behind the lines" do we see any of these cases.

I will also reiterate, what modifications are so out of bounds that a DA would deliberately target the owner? LIST THEM. You can't - every one is available on a gun sold in the retail market and most are not only offered on LEO duty guns they issue. RMR, extended mags, flat high speed low weight triggers, comp vents, - Cops carry more of that stuff than ever, which is why the PUBLIC is grabbing it up, because what the cops do is what many consider "legal" in their jurisdiction. This is an ages old phenomenom dating back to the Fitz .38 snub nose.

The argument that a DA will somehow ignore the dozens of guns he passes daily in the halls he works in only to zero in on someone's copycat is ludicrous. Could it happen? Maybe. Again, show me the list of banned features he's declared is inappropriate for you and I to possess.

Do you just hate SIG or SIG modifications alone, are there other handguns you'd like to see neutered? How about answering some of these questions instead of deflecting to continue your anti SIG rant and damage their fan base?
 

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I carry loaded and chambered no safety otherwise you're better off running away or carrying a stick.
 

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The only modifications I typically perform are either factory or factory-sanctioned upgrades. For example, I have the original Grayguns trigger that came with Legions originally (which I added to my non-Legion P229 because it was more comfortable for me). On my Beretta, I have Langdon Tactical Technologies upgrades which Beretta in fact sells as Ernest Langdon designed the new PX4 Storm carry pistols for Beretta. That said, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to dropping an Apex trigger in an M&P. The only legal ramifications I choose to fear are ones where I am in the wrong (my firearm unintentionally goes off because the trigger is too light and I made a mistake). I do not require uberlight triggers to be accurate, so I am never chasing sub 5 lb. triggers on carry guns that could be legally problematic in particular. Sure, any lawyer can try to question your choice to modify a firearm in an attempt to paint you in a negative light, but I would feel perfectly comfortable talking circles around an attorney discussing any modification of my firearm.

Moreover, I have worked for and with enough lawyers that I wouldn't trust one father than I could thrown him or her. Concealed Carry insurance is a scam. It's expensive, and the more popular it becomes the more likely it's going to lead to mandatory insurance laws. Anyone who thinks lawyers are pushing it because it is the best thing for you doesn't understand our legal system well enough, and I personally would include some of the top experts in the gun world in that statement. I don't have the experience on the stand like Massad Ayoob, for example, but I have other expertise regarding the law, and in my opinion we would all be better off collectively avoiding concealed carry insurance like the plague. The scare tactics won't work on me, but if we allow ourselves to become reliant on CCW insurance, then those of us carrying it will simply wag a finger at those who find themselves in legal trouble who can't afford it. The truth is that whatever benefit they give you is not going to be enough to get you out of trouble in my opinion. Unfortunately, the people lauding CCW insurance are not lawyers, regardless of their experience, and the ones who are are not to be trusted because of their profession. With few exceptions, lawyers are literally the scum of the earth, and I can tell you that from experience.
 

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I never said it couldn't be used against us. You aren't following closely. What you have very clearly said and have repeated over and over, it's that it will be.

We heard you the first time, continuing to object to our dismissal that it has any bearing in our life is where you keep refusing to accept our rejection.

Life is disappointment. Get used to it.

You've posted in threads about SIG safety issues and you aren't even aware of the "Sell all the SIG's and buy a Glock." tagline on those fake stories?

Anyone who posts in a SIG forum and doesn't support the optimization of any product they make out of fear some DA will go off half cocked with personal vendetta against their specific changes isn't supporting SIG or the forum. You aren't my supervisor and to continue this campaign against product excellence against SIG and their owners is in effect anti gun and anti SIG.

In the last 35 years we've gone from barely half a dozen states allowing CCW to dozens with Open Carry and over 40 with concealed, with a great deal of reciprocity. How has this burgeoning freedom to carry custom firearms loaded open and concealed caused a sudden upsurge in persequtorial conduct by DA's? It hasn't - it's done exactly the opposite, with cases reported daily of armed citizens protecting not only each other but also LEO's.

It's a cacaphanous track record of sucess, and the few who buck that trend are now being challenged at every turn. Only in the few coastal "states behind the lines" do we see any of these cases.

I will also reiterate, what modifications are so out of bounds that a DA would deliberately target the owner? LIST THEM. You can't - every one is available on a gun sold in the retail market and most are not only offered on LEO duty guns they issue. RMR, extended mags, flat high speed low weight triggers, comp vents, - Cops carry more of that stuff than ever, which is why the PUBLIC is grabbing it up, because what the cops do is what many consider "legal" in their jurisdiction. This is an ages old phenomenom dating back to the Fitz .38 snub nose.

The argument that a DA will somehow ignore the dozens of guns he passes daily in the halls he works in only to zero in on someone's copycat is ludicrous. Could it happen? Maybe. Again, show me the list of banned features he's declared is inappropriate for you and I to possess.

Do you just hate SIG or SIG modifications alone, are there other handguns you'd like to see neutered? How about answering some of these questions instead of deflecting to continue your anti SIG rant and damage their fan base?
You may need to invest in some of those noise cancelling ear muffs. Those voices whispering in your head, are running your posts off the rails. You do make me a believer in Circadian Rhythm Disorder.
 
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I have read your posts and throughout this tread they are all negative towards others on this forum. I might be Rip Van Winkle but you are a tool. ;)
I don鈥檛 remember responding to you in an insulting way. Obviously the RVW comment was my commenting that you were out of touch with the leftist who inhabit all government careers. If you dispute that fact, then we live in different worlds. If the RVW inference hurt your feelings, you better hope you never spend any time in a court room.

I am a little confused by your position as to my being 鈥渁ll negative鈥. Just a quick count shows me agreeing with at least 22 responses, and my being agreed with on at least another 24 times. The vast majority of my disagreements were with 3 other members who were all on the same side of the debate, which would make sense if logic were applied.

Oh, I guess this post responding to your highly inaccurate statement to me, would be considered negative and disagreeing. If I apply logic, presented in clear language, and the response is a non sequitur that is worded in an illogical manner filled with nonsense, of course I will respond. If it goes on long enough, it will get heated. Or funny. Or stupid. Your choice on that one.
 
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I don鈥檛 remember responding to you in an insulting way. Obviously the RVW comment was my commenting that you were out of touch with the leftist who inhabit all government careers. If you dispute that fact, then we live in different worlds. If the RVW inference hurt your feelings, you better hope you never spend any time in a court room.

I am a little confused by your position as to my being 鈥渁ll negative鈥. Just a quick count shows me agreeing with at least 22 responses, and my being agreed with on at least another 24 times. The vast majority of my disagreements were with 3 other members who were all on the same side of the debate, which would make sense if logic were applied.

Oh, I guess this post responding to your highly inaccurate statement to me, would be considered negative and disagreeing. If I apply logic, presented in clear language, and the response is a non sequitur that is worded in an illogical manner filled with nonsense, of course I will respond. If it goes on long enough, it will get heated. Or funny. Or stupid. Your choice on that one.
I took the post in an insulting way. Since you responded it was not I apologize.
 

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I took the post in an insulting way. Since you responded it was not I apologize.
Hey, we are all on the same side here. Well, most of us. ;)

The key point on all of these discussions, is the desire to survive to fight another day. In everything I do when out in the public at large, my foremost goal is to sleep in my bed each night. I know that we are on a precipice, and all it takes is for one bad step, and we are done. While I fully intend on using every tool at my disposal to end a threat, I realize that once I pull my firearm, my live has taken an abrupt change of course. I want my foray into the legal system to be as short as possible. I wish to appear boring to the politicians.

I've never had a criminal trial experience, but I鈥檝e paid for a few civil excursions. Most of the worst criminals I鈥檝e come across, have been wearing nice suits in civil courtrooms.
 
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That logic can be applied to insurance policies for auto and home. Or self defense insurance. All insurance is a losing proposition when factored against the total pool of insured. The fact that we do it anyway, is reflected in the profits insurance companies make.

Even if your local authorities decide that your self defense shooting is justified, you are still exposed to a civil suit. Win or lose, the cost of defending yourself against that civil suit will hurt. I can assure you, that slimy P O S sitting at that other table is going to use everything he can, to collect his check.

Just because self defense shootings are rare, and therefor do not have a measurable baseline, unlike auto accidents and home damage incidents, doesn鈥檛 make the possibility zero. If that is your measuring stick for an action you would take as a precaution, CCW is the poster child for something that is worthless. Right?
Self-defense shootings are not rare, just rarely reported because, well....we know why, but they are also rarely prosecuted because there is nothing to prosecute in a justified shooting. In Texas, we are also, by law, protected from civil lawsuits resulting from a justified shooting, so, if we deprive a criminal of his/her civil rights, or livelihood, that's his/her/next of kin's problem. A modification might present a problem in a negligent discharge, but otherwise, mod away.
 

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Speaking as someone with more than 2 decades in law enforcement, I can assure you that for ANY modification you can come up with that you would do to an EDC, I can give you a reason that the same modification will be a POSITIVE thing in a trial.

And like the others said, where's the long list of folks prosecuted for all these mods?

USCCA is selling insurance and they know, if they have to defend someone, it will cost them $$$ so they want to encourage their policy holders to make it as easy as possible for them. So yeah, they have videos saying don't do this but until I see a successful prosecution for a mod to an EDC used in a legitimate self defense shooting.
 

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I have seen the argument before that you should not modify your carry gun. I have not modified my carry guns because of the potential legal liability. This article provides some food for thought. I am a CCW holder and USCCA is a great organization. I also have their insurance to protect me legally if I ever have to use my gun in a life or death situation..

Can Using Modified Guns Land You in Jail? | USCCA (usconcealedcarry.com)
If one were so worried/concerned about "potential legal liability", one should not even carry a firearm, much less own one. Do not allow pedantry to obscure common sense. Anything that enables you to shoot better - faster, and more accurately, is defensible. The name of the game is staying alive so that you can at least see a day in court. Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
 

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Speaking as someone with more than 2 decades in law enforcement, I can assure you that for ANY modification you can come up with that you would do to an EDC, I can give you a reason that the same modification will be a POSITIVE thing in a trial.

And like the others said, where's the long list of folks prosecuted for all these mods?

USCCA is selling insurance and they know, if they have to defend someone, it will cost them $$$ so they want to encourage their policy holders to make it as easy as possible for them. So yeah, they have videos saying don't do this but until I see a successful prosecution for a mod to an EDC used in a legitimate self defense shooting.
I still think there is a tremendous English language disfunction going on in this thread. No one on the 鈥渄on鈥檛 modify鈥 side of the debate, is claiming that 鈥渘ot modifying鈥 is a get out of jail free card. The point is, not being drawn into a position of having to put your remaining life-liberty-fortune in the hands of our totally corrupt legal system. A political animal makes the decision whether to charge you or not. Logic and law doesn鈥檛 play a factor in that decision. Whether your lawyer can bat down his BS, is not the point. You are damaged by your involvement. Any advance effort to lessen exposure to the cesspool, before the firearm is deployed, is a good thing.

I still say, that until you have spent money in a Court Room, you have no idea how corrupt the system is.
 
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If one were so worried/concerned about "potential legal liability", one should not even carry a firearm, much less own one. Do not allow pedantry to obscure common sense. Anything that enables you to shoot better - faster, and more accurately, is defensible. The name of the game is staying alive so that you can at least see a day in court. Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
Again, that statement ignores the fact that there are plenty of off the shelf firearms that will accomplish that goal Without modification. In a self defense shooting, with all of the unknown and untrained for possibilities, a slightly harder trigger pull is so far down the list that it has no importance. If you can afford to buy and train with a quality firearm, you will be as prepared as the next unsuspecting crime victim, no matter what mods he installs. Training will trump mods every time.
 
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The last statement is truth. People would rather by the latest aftermarket parts to lighten the trigger or take the creep out of the trigger instead of actually training with the gun first and then deciding if anything needs modified.

Glock owners are the absolute worst offenders of this. I can鈥檛 count the number of posts I鈥檝e seen online 鈥渏ust got my first Glock, what mods should I make first鈥. It鈥檚 laughable. Shoot the damn thing first, and not just a few magazines.


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鈥淲asn鈥檛 a 5.5lb trigger easy enough for you Mr. Smith?鈥
Or
鈥滻f the pistol wasn鈥檛 easy enough as designed by professional engineers, why did you buy it?鈥
Or
鈥漈his pistol was designed by professional engineers and made by professional. Are you a professional armorer on this model of pistol Mr. Smith? Why do you think you know more and/or better than the people that designed/made the pistol Mr. Smith? Isn鈥檛 it true you just wanted to make it easier to shoot someone?鈥
After a carreer in design and manufacturing, here are some notes in response to the "questions", above.

A 5.5 lb. trigger is easy enough for any idiot, even a Prosecuting Attorney, to pull the trigger. But it may not be easy enough to actually hit the target and/or avoid hitting innocent bystanders. While the as-designed trigger pull is a fine nominal value, it may not be appropriate or optimal for every shooter.

I doubt that most of the people that design guns are "professional engineers". I would believe that most of them do not have a Bachelors degree in Mechanical Engineering. Further, they are not "Licensed" by their State as "Professional Engineers".

I know that most of the people that make guns are not "professional". They are hired as cheaply as possible, many of which are in foreign countries, and I would bet that the gun companies and the Prosecution, are unable to provide any documented evidence of training of their personnel or sub-contractors, that would qualify them to be called "professional".
 

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The only modifications I make to my carry pistols are the sights (if needed). I鈥檓 not worried about having to defend my modifications in court,..I just don鈥檛 want to introduce any unreliability into the gun I depend upon for my life. I don鈥檛 believe in a lot of changes to triggers, springs, or magazines鈥ut that鈥檚 just me.
 
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