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I modified my P365 with a Sig flat trigger and a M*Carbo trigger spring kit. How would they know it's modified. Do you think they are going to take the gun apart and inspect it. The answer is no. They will check the gun to see if it functions and test fire it. They will then examine the controlled projectile shot from the gun to the projectile that was removed from the person who was shot to see if it is a ballistic match.
 

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I modified my P365 with a Sig flat trigger and a M*Carbo trigger spring kit. How would they know it's modified. Do you think they are going to take the gun apart and inspect it. The answer is no. They will check the gun to see if it functions and test fire it. They will then examine the controlled projectile shot from the gun to the projectile that was removed from the person who was shot to see if it is a ballistic match.
LOL. If the prosecutor wants to hang his next promotion around your neck, absolutely he will have your firearm inspected. He will get your online post. He will stick his investigation so far up your a z z that he can nod your head for you. And he will mislead the judge and the jury about what you did in third grade. If the thug you shot was a lifetime rapist, murdering, robbing child molester, and black, he will have your third grade teacher testify against you. If I didn’t know better, I would think I was debating with Rip Van Winkle. o_O
 

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I find it intetesting that some believe that their modified handgun will somehow be the difference maker in a self-defense scenario.
If you’ve ever shot any sort of competition you’d realize how silly of a comment that is that you made. Grip texture, improved barrel lock up, trigger work, sights, magazine capacity along with lots of training do make a difference in matches and on the street.

This is worth a watch. @17:40 Reston goes into his current set up. This is a guy who has been in multiple fights.
 

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If you’ve ever shot any sort of competition you’d realize how silly of a comment that is that you made. Grip texture, improved barrel lock up, trigger work, sights, magazine capacity along with lots of training do make a difference in matches and on the street.

This is worth a watch. @17:40 Reston goes into his current set up. This is a guy who has been in multiple fights.
LOL. I like how you added training to your side of the debate. Way to co-opt the winning argument. :ROFLMAO::D

Situational awareness plus a better skill set will beat any thug in a gunfight. If the thug gets the drop, he will be the proud owner of your race gun.
 

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I recently got into a discussion like this with a buddy after I added a "custom" etched striker back-plate to my 365.

His response: "Any modifications could be brought up in court if ever used and to the why. So best to leave alone"
My response: "Maybe for some things but that's kinda reading too far into it. If it were a hateful comment, hate group logo or image, or expressing malicious intent or harm, that's another matter."

I think the majority of these "fears" and concerns have come from media attention and articles citing that hateful/objectionable messages or images can be misconstrued as willful intent to cause harm.

Case in point, here is an (old) article about an LEO who was under scrutiny due to the custom dust cover he added to his AR that was used during an on-duty shooting.
...and the follow-up article showing the judge ruled that the prosecutor's "evidence" regarding the dust-cover were inadmissible and irrelevant.
 

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I recently got into a discussion like this with a buddy after I added a "custom" etched striker back-plate to my 365.

His response: "Any modifications could be brought up in court if ever used and to the why. So best to leave alone"
My response: "Maybe for some things but that's kinda reading too far into it. If it were a hateful comment, hate group logo or image, or expressing malicious intent or harm, that's another matter."

I think the majority of these "fears" and concerns have come from media attention and articles citing that hateful/objectionable messages or images can be misconstrued as willful intent to cause harm.

Case in point, here is an (old) article about an LEO who was under scrutiny due to the custom dust cover he added to his AR that was used during an on-duty shooting.
...and the follow-up article showing the judge ruled that the prosecutor's "evidence" regarding the dust-cover were inadmissible and irrelevant.
A lot of this has been going on forever. It’s stuff that gets said by fudds and poors in gun stores and is then carried as truth by the massive influx of new gun owners in the past 12 or so years. It takes time to de-program the dumb thinking but by the time those new gun owners have figured things out, a new group has started repeating what they learned in their local shop and the cycle continues. “Don’t modify your pistol or you’ll go to jail”, “the best gun for your wife is a snub revolver, they never jam”, “never store your magazines loaded, it will cause your magazines not to work”, “AKs never jam, that’s why I carried one in Vietnam”. On and on and on. 🙂
 

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I recently got into a discussion like this with a buddy after I added a "custom" etched striker back-plate to my 365.

His response: "Any modifications could be brought up in court if ever used and to the why. So best to leave alone"
My response: "Maybe for some things but that's kinda reading too far into it. If it were a hateful comment, hate group logo or image, or expressing malicious intent or harm, that's another matter."

I think the majority of these "fears" and concerns have come from media attention and articles citing that hateful/objectionable messages or images can be misconstrued as willful intent to cause harm.

Case in point, here is an (old) article about an LEO who was under scrutiny due to the custom dust cover he added to his AR that was used during an on-duty shooting.
...and the follow-up article showing the judge ruled that the prosecutor's "evidence" regarding the dust-cover were inadmissible and irrelevant.
Sure, because the common man always gets the same treatment from the judge as the LEO. LOL.
 

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A lot of this has been going on forever. It’s stuff that gets said by fudds and poors in gun stores and is then carried as truth by the massive influx of new gun owners in the past 12 or so years. It takes time to de-program the dumb thinking but by the time those new gun owners have figured things out, a new group has started repeating what they learned in their local shop and the cycle continues. “Don’t modify your pistol or you’ll go to jail”, “the best gun for your wife is a snub revolver, they never jam”, “never store your magazines loaded, it will cause your magazines not to work”, “AKs never jam, that’s why I carried one in Vietnam”. On and on and on. 🙂
We’re you in the Wizard of Oz?
414947
 

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You are wanting me to disprove a negative. I could say “show me that it hasn’t ever happened”. That is a ridiculous exercise. In my City, the taxpayers continuously are paying huge settlements to individuals who have been wrongly convicted because of the actions of our police and prosecutors. We have a new lawsuit announced this week. In my City, and most other big City’s ran by leftist, every single person employed in that court room except maybe your lawyer, is a leftist and will do everything they can to ruin you.

I CCW for one reason. To live another day. I have zero illusions that my self defense action will be reported or treated fairly, long before I get in front that jury. The system and media will have poisoned the well to an extent that a fair impartial trial is impossible. Perhaps you live in a conservative utopia where the lion lays with the lamb, but the other 330 plus million of us live in an adversarial cesspool.
If you want to call SoFla utopia fine go ahead.
I defend myself with a weapon and it’s ruled justified as in no charges filed I am immune from civil lawsuits. Period. It really is that simple.

An article? A link? A single story where a prosecutor tried to use the guns mods to sway a jury?
I’m still waiting….

I carry a Wilson 1911. I had it built. I specified a 3.5lb trigger pull.
I’m not worried.
 

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I modified my P365 with a Sig flat trigger and a M*Carbo trigger spring kit. How would they know it's modified. Do you think they are going to take the gun apart and inspect it. The answer is no. They will check the gun to see if it functions and test fire it. They will then examine the controlled projectile shot from the gun to the projectile that was removed from the person who was shot to see if it is a ballistic match.
I believe the lawyer couple who faced off against the BLM crowd on their property did indeed have their guns torn down and inspected. If memory serves, and I'm old, it was discovered the wife's gun was actually non functioning and with some shinanigans the prosecutor tried to fix it.

Oh and somewhat relevant to the conversation .. all my guns are stock. Not because I am worried about the appearance or liability at a possible trial but I learned long ago that if I get a gun that I am not thrilled with ... Throwing money at mods makes the gun more costly than I can recover in a sale. If I don't like it after 300-400 rounds away it goes.
 

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If you want to call SoFla utopia fine go ahead.
I defend myself with a weapon and it’s ruled justified as in no charges filed I am immune from civil lawsuits. Period. It really is that simple.

An article? A link? A single story where a prosecutor tried to use the guns mods to sway a jury?
I’m still waiting….

I carry a Wilson 1911. I had it built. I specified a 3.5lb trigger pull.
I’m not worried.
While I agree with you about being worried, during the George Zimmerman trial, they did use his Kel-Tec as an exhibit in the states case. As I recall one of the questions asked by the state, was to the states forensic lab about the trigger pull. Not sure where they were going with that but they didn’t seem to go down that road. Also that case was a bit out there in terms of the state making it’s case so it’s not the best example. I’m just pointing out that examples do exist but at the same time I don’t think it is as big of a deal as some try to make it out to be.
 

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If you’ve ever shot any sort of competition you’d realize how silly of a comment that is that you made. Grip texture, improved barrel lock up, trigger work, sights, magazine capacity along with lots of training do make a difference in matches and on the street.

This is worth a watch. @17:40 Reston goes into his current set up. This is a guy who has been in multiple fights.
I know exactly what I'm talking about. Three gun matches and other competitions are excelent training. And yes, there are mods that will help you score higher.

But... First, the statistical probability that you will ever actually use your CC for self-defense is miniscule. Second...it's not going down anything at all in a way that resembles those competions. Third...at the range that most...almost all...real world self-defense shootings happen, you probably aren't even using your sights...it's point the gun and pull the trigger. Fourth, in competitions every single weekend there are guys shooting stock guns who beat a whole bunch of guys who have spent money modifying their guns.

I've got no problem with people doing whatever they want to do to their guns. Their gun, their money. Go for it. But don't fool yourself that you are somehow more likely to beat the bad guy and walk away from a shooting because you tricked out your gun.
 

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Do you ever bring anything to the discussion outside of mediocre quips or is attempting to be funny or edgy your thing?
I replied to you in post #14 and#44 With rebuttals that were on point. Both of my post responded exactly to yours. You came back in post #46 with ad hominem insults, “fudds and poors” whatever that means, followed by “de-program the dumb thinking” which of course is complementary language in your house, I’m sure. Then you follow that up with 4 false straw man points, that have nothing to do with the thread.

So, I guess in lieu of you offering serious commentary, I will respond to you with biting humor. This is a big boy topic on a big boy forum. You can be childish, and insult me, or you can man up and defend your position. Or just tag out.
 

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Appropriate modifications that I feel are justifiable are night sights, a WML and something along the lines of OEM enhanced mag release such as the enhanced paddles for an HK. These are reasonable modifications that can be easily justified. Night sights help to align the sights in dim light shootings which can avoid missing the target and thus reducing the possibility of endangering a bystander. A WML can be justified as appropriate for allowing positive identification of the target in low/no light situations. Thus making it safer. Enhanced OEM mag release to aid in proper manipulation of the pistols functions. Something like grip tape can be justified as allowing a positive purchase on the pistol thus avoiding if falling or loss of control under recoil.

Although I'm not aware of any cases were modifying a pistol has resulted in a conviction in-and-of-itself, mucking around with the internals is a no-no in my professional opinion. How do you justify lightening a trigger that, in the case of most striker-fired pistols is already light. Unless you can demonstrate you have a disability that limits hand strength you really shouldn't need to lighted an already light trigger.

"Mr. Smith, the standard trigger pull on your XYZ pistol is 5.5lbs. You changed the internals to lighten the trigger pull to 3lbs. Do you suffer from a disability that affects your hand strength Mr. Smith?"

"No sir."

"So then you just wanted to alter the pistol to make it easier to shoot someone?"

While the above is fictitious it does give some insight into 'Cute Lawyer Tricks' to think about. I would not want to be on the witness stand defending a pistol with a Punisher or skull-n-crossbones on it or some internal mod that wasn't necessary for the function of the pistol.
 

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If you want to call SoFla utopia fine go ahead.
I defend myself with a weapon and it’s ruled justified as in no charges filed I am immune from civil lawsuits. Period. It really is that simple.

An article? A link? A single story where a prosecutor tried to use the guns mods to sway a jury?
I’m still waiting….

I carry a Wilson 1911. I had it built. I specified a 3.5lb trigger pull.
I’m not worried.
I can assure you that Florida’s gun laws are stellar. Just because you live below Ocala, doesn’t change the protections you have. Those protections are not universal. In my City, you will be falsely prosecuted and jailed by the boys downtown. They do it every day.

Again, rather than you insisting that I disprove your negative, how about you show me the obverse situation. Show me a case where the prosecutor did not mention the weapon.
 

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I recently got into a discussion like this with a buddy after I added a "custom" etched striker back-plate to my 365.

His response: "Any modifications could be brought up in court if ever used and to the why. So best to leave alone"
My response: "Maybe for some things but that's kinda reading too far into it. If it were a hateful comment, hate group logo or image, or expressing malicious intent or harm, that's another matter."

I think the majority of these "fears" and concerns have come from media attention and articles citing that hateful/objectionable messages or images can be misconstrued as willful intent to cause harm.

Case in point, here is an (old) article about an LEO who was under scrutiny due to the custom dust cover he added to his AR that was used during an on-duty shooting.
...and the follow-up article showing the judge ruled that the prosecutor's "evidence" regarding the dust-cover were inadmissible and irrelevant.
Judge’s call balls and strikes like a umpire. This ruling might not go the same way in another case and a different judge. You just never know.

I think people should do what they want with their guns. My preference is that I don’t want sayings or images on my guns. Just make model serial number.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

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I can assure you that Florida’s gun laws are stellar. Just because you live below Ocala, doesn’t change the protections you have. Those protections are not universal. In my City, you will be falsely prosecuted and jailed by the boys downtown. They do it every day.

Again, rather than you insisting that I disprove your negative, how about you show me the obverse situation. Show me a case where the prosecutor did not mention the weapon.

Thread is in regards to mods making life difficult during a supposed trial by a zealous prosecutor. I have said I have never seen or heard of that happening. I think the burden would be on the ones who think it’ll matter not the other way around. Since you didn’t easily Google it and pull up dozens of examples I’ll just assume I’m right.
 

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Appropriate modifications that I feel are justifiable are night sights, a WML and something along the lines of OEM enhanced mag release such as the enhanced paddles for an HK. These are reasonable modifications that can be easily justified. Night sights help to align the sights in dim light shootings which can avoid missing the target and thus reducing the possibility of endangering a bystander. A WML can be justified as appropriate for allowing positive identification of the target in low/no light situations. Thus making it safer. Enhanced OEM mag release to aid in proper manipulation of the pistols functions. Something like grip tape can be justified as allowing a positive purchase on the pistol thus avoiding if falling or loss of control under recoil.

Although I'm not aware of any cases were modifying a pistol has resulted in a conviction in-and-of-itself, mucking around with the internals is a no-no in my professional opinion. How do you justify lightening a trigger that, in the case of most striker-fired pistols is already light. Unless you can demonstrate you have a disability that limits hand strength you really shouldn't need to lighted an already light trigger.

"Mr. Smith, the standard trigger pull on your XYZ pistol is 5.5lbs. You changed the internals to lighten the trigger pull to 3lbs. Do you suffer from a disability that affects your hand strength Mr. Smith?"

"No sir."

"So then you just wanted to alter the pistol to make it easier to shoot someone?"

While the above is fictitious it does give some insight into 'Cute Lawyer Tricks' to think about. I would not want to be on the witness stand defending a pistol with a Punisher or skull-n-crossbones on it or some internal mod that wasn't necessary for the function of the pistol.
‘No, I wanted to make it easier to defend myself.’
Next question….
 

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‘No, I wanted to make it easier to defend myself.’
Next question….
“Wasn’t a 5.5lb trigger easy enough for you Mr. Smith?”

Or

”If the pistol wasn’t easy enough as designed by professional engineers, why did you buy it?”

Or

”This pistol was designed by professional engineers and made by professional. Are you a professional armorer on this model of pistol Mr. Smith? Why do you think you know more and/or better than the people that designed/made the pistol Mr. Smith? Isn’t it true you just wanted to make it easier to shoot someone?”
 
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