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I have seen the argument before that you should not modify your carry gun. I have not modified my carry guns because of the potential legal liability. This article provides some food for thought. I am a CCW holder and USCCA is a great organization. I also have their insurance to protect me legally if I ever have to use my gun in a life or death situation..

Can Using Modified Guns Land You in Jail? | USCCA (usconcealedcarry.com)
 

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I just watched this video earlier today.

It’s something I think about. The only mods I have on my carry guns are the flat triggers on my 320 and 365 and Talon Grips.
I stay away from symbols on my guns like the Punisher logo etc.


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Tom Grieve speaks wisdom, I think he gave an excellent summary of how to think about EDC gun mods. Thanks for the post and link.

I’m so glad Tom is my go-to attorney in case of a self defense incident! (His office is in my town)
 

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Tom Grieve speaks wisdom, I think he gave an excellent summary of how to think about EDC gun mods. Thanks for the post and link.

I’m so glad Tom is my go-to attorney in case of a self defense incident! (His office is in my town)
I thought that name sounded familiar, Tom set up my NFA Trust around a decade ago.

But you know what I find kinda funny, If a prosecutor will say a modification made you more likely to kill... than wouldn't that same prosecutor say by having SD insurance you planned to kill?

Point is if they are go after you, they will go after you.
 

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This is the oldest wives tale and biggest load of horsecrap worry I’ve ever heard.
Where are the many links to stories about people who got in trouble over a modification? Such an issue it is there should be tons of them right?
That logic can be applied to insurance policies for auto and home. Or self defense insurance. All insurance is a losing proposition when factored against the total pool of insured. The fact that we do it anyway, is reflected in the profits insurance companies make.

Even if your local authorities decide that your self defense shooting is justified, you are still exposed to a civil suit. Win or lose, the cost of defending yourself against that civil suit will hurt. I can assure you, that slimy P O S sitting at that other table is going to use everything he can, to collect his check.

Just because self defense shootings are rare, and therefor do not have a measurable baseline, unlike auto accidents and home damage incidents, doesn’t make the possibility zero. If that is your measuring stick for an action you would take as a precaution, CCW is the poster child for something that is worthless. Right?
 

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That logic can be applied to insurance policies for auto and home. Or self defense insurance. All insurance is a losing proposition when factored against the total pool of insured. The fact that we do it anyway, is reflected in the profits insurance companies make.

Even if your local authorities decide that your self defense shooting is justified, you are still exposed to a civil suit. Win or lose, the cost of defending yourself against that civil suit will hurt. I can assure you, that slimy P O S sitting at that other table is going to use everything he can, to collect his check.

Just because self defense shootings are rare, and therefor do not have a measurable baseline, unlike auto accidents and home damage incidents, doesn’t make the possibility zero. If that is your measuring stick for an action you would take as a precaution, CCW is the poster child for something that is worthless. Right?
Evidence of insurance in any case is not admissible in a trial because it is irrelevant to whether the act complained of occurred.
Rule of Evidence 411 (Google it!)

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Evidence of insurance in any case is not admissible in a trial because it is irrelevant to whether the act complained of occurred.
Rule of Evidence 411 (Google it!)

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I have zero idea what that means as a response to my post.
 

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This is a conversation that has gone on as far as I can remember. I can recall this being talked about in the early 90s in gun rags when lots of 1911 tuners started popping up. While I’m sure it could be an issue, I think overwhelmingly it is not much of an issue at all. My carry guns are all modified. The reason is simple, I don’t want to get into a gun fight, but if I find myself in one, I want every advantage I can get. There is no such thing as a fair fight. This is why I have aggressive stippling on my frames, match barrels, tuned triggers or aftermarket triggers, use an Mag Guts +2 kits or a TTI extension that increases my overall round count, some guns have RMRs and weapon lights. For me personally I’d rather focus on winning a gun fight first and worry about any legal fallout after rather than worrying about legal ramifications to start with and handicapping myself everyday. It’s hard to fight a legal battle when you are six feet under. I do believe you should have some sort of legal insurance as well. Just my opinion though. Not a lawyer, just some guy on the internet.
 

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This is a conversation that has gone on as far as I can remember. I can recall this being talked about in the early 90s in gun rags when lots of 1911 tuners started popping up. While I’m sure it could be an issue, I think overwhelmingly it is not much of an issue at all. My carry guns are all modified. The reason is simple, I don’t want to get into a gun fight, but if I find myself in one, I want every advantage I can get. There is no such thing as a fair fight. This is why I have aggressive stippling on my frames, match barrels, tuned triggers or aftermarket triggers, use an Mag Guts +2 kits or a TTI extension that increases my overall round count, some guns have RMRs and weapon lights. For me personally I’d rather focus on winning a gun fight first and worry about any legal fallout after rather than worrying about legal ramifications to start with and handicapping myself everyday. It’s hard to fight a legal battle when you are six feet under. I do believe you should have some sort of legal insurance as well. Just my opinion though. Not a lawyer, just some guy on the internet.
While I agree with most of what you are saying, I apply my improvement ”modifications” to my training and practice regimens. I only buy quality EDC firearms, and test them substantially for both reliability and accuracy. If I can’t operate my chosen firearm better than the common street thug, then my issues are not going to be cured by changing parts on my chosen firearm. In the vast majority of instances of injury to the victim of a crime, the extra fraction of a second achieved by gun mods, would have no chance of out weighing all of the bad decisions that came before that encounter. I would be interested in an example of two evenly matched skill level individuals, one good and one evil, being involved in a gunfight on the streets of America, and a race gun making any difference at all.

In any encounter with evil, your proximity to and alertness about the threat will always be the deciding factor. That and being armed.
 

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I couldn't get through the whole video. Watched right past the point of the 1911 grip pinning. Whew .. this comes up on every gun board from time to time.

First .. in the amount of video I was able to watch without rolling my eyes. The lightened semi auto trigger and the pinned 1911 grip safety. The only reason that these mods might get you in trouble is because they "MAY" cause you to let off a round when you didn't intend to in the heat of battle or the precursor. Not because it can be used against you in court.

How can you be tried and convicted because you modded your gun when making gun modifications is totally legal.

I would argue the grip safety pinning is moot because you still have a thumb safety.

I would agree with the poster above that emblazoning your gun with "Kill them all let god sort them out" or the dreaded "Molan Labe" that so many people have fallen in love with may allow a prosecutor to paint you in an unfavorable light. I for one don't feel the need to broadcast my political beliefs or any personal identifying information to the general public and dont even wear tee shirts that are anything but a plain color but that is just me. I dont wear an NRA hat or have a sticker on my door. I dont wear a ruger tee... My business is my business.

However In our still somewhat fair legal system .. You are on trial for one thing .. Did you use your gun in a way that can be justified under the law. So forgetting the two instances I was able to watch which described the possibility of harming someone through a negligent discharge .. you are only in court to prove that you legally used your firearm in accordance with the laws of your state.

If someone is walking in your hallway on the way to your bedroom to do untold horrible things and you kill him with a blunderbuss you are on trial for whether your use of the blunderbuss was justified and not that you killed him with a relic.

These threads almost inevitably wind up at Howard Fish and his more than deadly 10mm which can shoot through engine blocks and was therefore what landed him in jail. Not true. Yes the prosecutor did try and use the gun to show that Fish was somehow the aggressor and was waiting for an opportunity to use his shinny toy but that is not what landed him in jail. He made inconsistent statements (which is why you shut your mouth until you have a lawyer) and the ME made some unsubstantiated ridiculous statements about the way things transpired based on the bullet strikes. The lawyer Fish did get hold of was obviously not very good.

Ultimately Fish was exonerated and released. The 10mm meant very little in the case.

So .. dont make mods that may make you shoot someone on accident and only use your firearm in a way that is justified in your state and those nifty night sites and that Gas pedal thingy wont matter
 

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I couldn't get through the whole video. Watched right past the point of the 1911 grip pinning. Whew .. this comes up on every gun board from time to time.

First .. in the amount of video I was able to watch without rolling my eyes. The lightened semi auto trigger and the pinned 1911 grip safety. The only reason that these mods might get you in trouble is because they "MAY" cause you to let off a round when you didn't intend to in the heat of battle or the precursor. Not because it can be used against you in court.

How can you be tried and convicted because you modded your gun when making gun modifications is totally legal.

I would argue the grip safety pinning is moot because you still have a thumb safety.

I would agree with the poster above that emblazoning your gun with "Kill them all let god sort them out" or the dreaded "Molan Labe" that so many people have fallen in love with may allow a prosecutor to paint you in an unfavorable light. I for one don't feel the need to broadcast my political beliefs or any personal identifying information to the general public and dont even wear tee shirts that are anything but a plain color but that is just me. I dont wear an NRA hat or have a sticker on my door. I dont wear a ruger tee... My business is my business.

However In our still somewhat fair legal system .. You are on trial for one thing .. Did you use your gun in a way that can be justified under the law. So forgetting the two instances I was able to watch which described the possibility of harming someone through a negligent discharge .. you are only in court to prove that you legally used your firearm in accordance with the laws of your state.

If someone is walking in your hallway on the way to your bedroom to do untold horrible things and you kill him with a blunderbuss you are on trial for whether your use of the blunderbuss was justified and not that you killed him with a relic.

These threads almost inevitably wind up at Howard Fish and his more than deadly 10mm which can shoot through engine blocks and was therefore what landed him in jail. Not true. Yes the prosecutor did try and use the gun to show that Fish was somehow the aggressor and was waiting for an opportunity to use his shinny toy but that is not what landed him in jail. He made inconsistent statements (which is why you shut your mouth until you have a lawyer) and the ME made some unsubstantiated ridiculous statements about the way things transpired based on the bullet strikes. The lawyer Fish did get hold of was obviously not very good.

Ultimately Fish was exonerated and released. The 10mm meant very little in the case.

So .. dont make modes that may make you shoot someone on accident and only use your firearm in a way that is justified in your state and those nifty night sites and that Gas pedal thingy wont matter
Not meant as a disparagement to your opinion, BUT, I have no idea where you get your experience of the current legal system. It is a war of attrition, and which ever side runs out of money first, loses. It has nothing to do with laws or legality.

Ask me how I know 😱
 
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Not meant as a disparagement to your opinion, BUT, I have no idea where you get your experience of the current legal system. It is a war of attrition, and which ever side runs out of money first, loses. It has nothing to do with laws or legality.

Ask me how I know 😱
Oh no doubt! I absolutely agree with "no money no honey" but I still want to believe that in America the judges instructions, an honest jury of your peers carefully selected by both sides and a fairly good appeals system .. in the end .. justice can be had. Now .. in a civil suit .. well all bets are off.

Like I said .. Fish did some time after he was railroaded but in the end Justice prevailed and he was let go.

Now.. if the family of the homeless guy Fish shot wanted to sue because some ambulance chaser told them they could make a killing and he would just take a percentage and not take money from their pocket well .. that really is a war of attrition and Fish and others like him would be as homeless and crazy as the guy he shot after losing everything he owns.
 

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I have seen the argument before that you should not modify your carry gun. I have not modified my carry guns because of the potential legal liability. This article provides some food for thought. I am a CCW holder and USCCA is a great organization. I also have their insurance to protect me legally if I ever have to use my gun in a life or death situation..

Can Using Modified Guns Land You in Jail? | USCCA (usconcealedcarry.com)
how do you like the USCAA insurance?
 

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Oh no doubt! I absolutely agree with "no money no honey" but I still want to believe that in America the judges instructions, an honest jury of your peers carefully selected by both sides and a fairly good appeals system .. in the end .. justice can be had. Now .. in a civil suit .. well all bets are off.

Like I said .. Fish did some time after he was railroaded but in the end Justice prevailed and he was let go.

Now.. if the family of the homeless guy Fish shot wanted to sue because some ambulance chaser told them they could make a killing and he would just take a percentage and not take money from their pocket well .. that really is a war of attrition and Fish and others like him would be as homeless and crazy as the guy he shot after losing everything he owns.
Having spent some measurable amount of cash in the legal system, and on lawyers ( heck, I raised one) I can speak from experience. The system you “want to believe in” hasn’t existed for decades.
I want to believe I’m the smartest, best looking guy in the room. One outta two ain’t bad 😉
 
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