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Discussion Starter #21
Bill at sig sauer replied that sig does not supply any shipping materials for return shipments. i.e. no new box will be provided. So I am making custom fit foam insert for the original box to get it there in one piece. I asked that the custom fit foam be returned with the gun, no reply on that but he did say sig would provide a free magazine for the trouble of custom packing the gun.

I got my quotes mixed up, I think cool hand Luke was; “what we have here is a failure to.....”
“there are two ways we can do this......” maybe came from someone at the day job.

anyhow a free magazine is better that a sharpe stick in the eye.
 

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I don’t know if sig opens them after test firing, or if they fire as they should they go back on the rack and head for shipping
They do not open them after firing unless something is noted. For handguns they test fire about 1200 a shift. That was before the current rush although that is about the max anyone can do in the allotted time. It's not a total of eight hours due to environmental concerns.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Bill from sig sauer replied that sig does not provide any return packaging. He said for the trouble they will provide a free magazine for the gun.

I looked around and found two types of foam some 3/4” soft foam something like a sleeping pad for camping and some 2-1/2” open cell foam like used in custom gun shipping cases. It will work like a sandwich the soft on the outside with the open cell inside cutout to fit the gun holding it secure for shipping. If sig returns my packing it will last for years.

so now is where I need to tap into you all for some educated advise. The paper work sig sent states to strip the rile down, meaning no sights no gadgets that did not come with the gun originally. Which is easy because it is brand new, I have not had a chance to put anything on it.

however the stock as received on the gun is not like anything that is seen any web postings or on the sig site. It came with a magpul I think sl stock and a round slabbed off sides buffer. At first I was not sure I liked it but it has grown on me. First I don’t want sig to change it, and second I don’t want them to screw it up.(I say that because from the start this has not gone good, I don’t want to give them the opportunity to make it worse.)

that said I am thinking of returning the gun for service without the stock. One t27 screw and the stock is off and when I cut out the custom foam there is less fitting. This is all good so far.

the question is am I creating atf violation by shipping a rifle in for repairs without a stock? The overall length of the gun without the stock is 26-1/4”. If I am not mistaken the atf defines the rifle at 26”oal with 16” barrel which the gun meets, but a rifle is also stated as shoulder fire, which sans stock is not doable. Or not doable by a reasoned person.

so what is the consensus am I creating a new atf category shipping with no stock, is this a atf violation, or because it is going in for repair it is exempt? Or it’s not a rifle, it’s not a pistol, is a riftol which the atf especially now will frown on. Does anyone have a clue on this?
 

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Bill from sig sauer replied that sig does not provide any return packaging. He said for the trouble they will provide a free magazine for the gun.

I looked around and found two types of foam some 3/4” soft foam something like a sleeping pad for camping and some 2-1/2” open cell foam like used in custom gun shipping cases. It will work like a sandwich the soft on the outside with the open cell inside cutout to fit the gun holding it secure for shipping. If sig returns my packing it will last for years.

so now is where I need to tap into you all for some educated advise. The paper work sig sent states to strip the rile down, meaning no sights no gadgets that did not come with the gun originally. Which is easy because it is brand new, I have not had a chance to put anything on it.

however the stock as received on the gun is not like anything that is seen any web postings or on the sig site. It came with a magpul I think sl stock and a round slabbed off sides buffer. At first I was not sure I liked it but it has grown on me. First I don’t want sig to change it, and second I don’t want them to screw it up.(I say that because from the start this has not gone good, I don’t want to give them the opportunity to make it worse.)

that said I am thinking of returning the gun for service without the stock. One t27 screw and the stock is off and when I cut out the custom foam there is less fitting. This is all good so far.

the question is am I creating atf violation by shipping a rifle in for repairs without a stock? The overall length of the gun without the stock is 26-1/4”. If I am not mistaken the atf defines the rifle at 26”oal with 16” barrel which the gun meets, but a rifle is also stated as shoulder fire, which sans stock is not doable. Or not doable by a reasoned person.

so what is the consensus am I creating a new atf category shipping with no stock, is this a atf violation, or because it is going in for repair it is exempt? Or it’s not a rifle, it’s not a pistol, is a riftol which the atf especially now will frown on. Does anyone have a clue on this?
Removing a stock from a rifle creates no legal problem as long as the overall length is 26” or greater.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Once you remove the stock, you essentially have a "pistol". I purchased my LEO version without a stock (pistol) to avoid the long wait for the Form 1 approval process.
 

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Once you remove the stock, you essentially have a "pistol". I purchased my LEO version without a stock (pistol) to avoid the long wait for the Form 1 approval process.
Well, legally the OP’s gun will still be a rifle. There’s no way to reclassify it as a pistol.

But there’s no federal law against removing a stock from a rifle as long as the rifle is 26” OAL or greater and the bbl is 16” or greater from breechface to forward end of muzzle or permanent attachment.

Whooper333:
You bought this new; didn’t it come in a shipping box?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Yes it was a new out of state purchase with ffl transfer. The packing sig uses is a once and forget it packing. After 1 use it is useless. measured rifle again sans stock it is 26-3/8” oal and breach face to end of flash hider is 17-3/4”, 16 to barrel end. Looks like with these numbers sig thought this thru.

waiting to here back from bill at sig on sans stock. The rma instructions sig sends are picky, no sights, no after market, no this, no that, obviously no loaded, otherwise they will not work on the gun. Last thing I need is for them not to replace the handguard and feed ramp because of the way the gun was returned.

I have a s&w revolver that went back 4 times and still not returned fully repaired. Maybe it’s a east coast thing, knock on wood have not had these issues with cz. I thought the sig would be up in cz’s class.
 

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Huh, I hope they return it, I'd be really surprised that any large company could pull that off. Would be impressed
 

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Discussion Starter #29
The s&w was returned, just not fixed correctly. Was not saying they kept the gun just never fixed the gun. Probably why I have a bad taste on new s&w revolvers.

Sig is not starting much better, a cracked feed ramp out of the factory? Their qc must be off on mondays, obviously this is a Monday gun.

I heard back from bill at sig, he is the customer service person I have be corresponding with. He states the gun must be returned in the purchased new condition, with the magazine that was initially shipped with the gun. So the sans stock atf question becomes mut.

if there really is a lifetime warranty for original owners, this sounds like a dumb policy. Maybe it is saying if you change the gun, I.e. Midwest hand guard the warranty is void.

anyhow the foam has been fully cut out and the gun will be dropped off at fedex tomorrow. i will then find out if sig is a s&w or closer to a cz. I hope the latter.

I have a quick s&w true tale. Sent in a 686 pro series for a multitude of new manufacturers defects. When the gun was returned s&w sand blasted off the logo “ pro series“ off the sides of the gun. When I called s&w, joe the customer service guy said to me the gun never had the logo on its sides. I said that’s funny joe because I have photos of the gun before it was sent in and sure enough it has logos on the sides. Need less to say I have photos of the Virtus.
 
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