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I am new to hand guns. For a holiday gift I already got my wife a tablet, for my gift she will buy me a hand gun (under $600) and either a concealed carry or other training class. In AK you don't need a concealed carry permit so I will be looking for some type of gun care and safety class.

I have shot rifles and have a few but never a hand gun. My rifles have manual safeties. Manual safeties are hard to find on handguns. I have been to several local gun shops as well as Cabell's & Walmart. (Walmart's gun people were pathetic they new less than I do) I have yet to find a manual safety on a 40 cal.

So I have a few questions for the Sig Talk forum:
1 is there a 40 cal semi auto with a manual safety?
2 how about a manual safety AND a de-cocker?
3 if they exist why are they so hard to find and can you tell me models to look oat and places to look?
4 I have read many things saying a 40cal is a good multipurpose handgun with more stopping power than a 9MM & more penetration than a 45 do you Agree
I have read that a 40 has a decent chance of stopping a black bear where 9mm's and 45's have no chance due to size and velocity. Can any of you verify or discredit that information.
 

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1. Wilson Combat | Classic

2. Probably somewhere...

3. Are you looking for something like the Beretta 92 only in a 40? Is there a reason you want a manual safety and decocker?

4. the 40 came about from the FBI switch to 10mm for a minute, but 10 was a bit hot for a bunch of people. 40 is still a pretty hot round, lots of people talk about how that affects your gun funny. Similar to the 357 sig. And what's wrong with either 9mm or 45? I've heard stories about people killing grizzlies with .22LR. I mean, it took a few... But I wouldn't expect a grizzly to go down with only one "normal" handgun round (so not caskull, beowolf, 500, etc).
And black bears are a bit smaller than grizzlies...

But we can argue caliber all day. 9 has capacity and does work well. 45 has excellent stopping power and energy. Idk what you've heard about either of those that won't work against flesh... 40 has more pop, and makes large holes, and has a decent amount of stopping power. It's the halfway between 2 calibers you don't like...

If you are worried about bears and have the desire to have a semi-auto... there's 10mm and the Desert Eagle line. And revolvers.

And if you feel that standard loads won't do the job, there's always +P. Anything I saw about bear defense was "use a rifle or a handgun so big you gotta ice your hand after." My vote is shot placement. Or a .45-70 revolver.
 

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Oh yeah! Welcome from central Missouri. We only have black bears to worry about every once in a blue moon.
 

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Off the top of my head I can only think of 4 handguns in .40 s&w that have a manual safety and decocker, although the HK's will be hard to find for under $600

HK P30S v3
HK USP v1
Beretta 96FS
FN FN-X
 

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Welcome From Texas.

Other then a 1911 Type. I don't know of anything with a Manual Safety.
Under $600.00 it will be hard to find anything. AK is the only State that WM
sells Handguns so I've been told.
I'd go with a 40 or 45 caliber.
 

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Most Sigs have four safeties each.
 

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Welcome!

First, I classify handgun safeties into three categories:
1. Active Safeties: Safe/Fire switch, integrated key lock. These safeties require you to do something specific before the firearm will fire.

2. Passive Safeties: Grip safeties, trigger safeties, firing pin drop safety, and magazine disconnect would be passive safeties that can prevent a firearm from going off accidentally, but require no action on your part in order to intentionally fire since they're all part of normal operation (i.e. proper grip).

3. You observing firearm handling rules: Arguably the most important and effective safety there is.
Always treat a firearm as if it were loaded.
Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on target.
Know your target and what is beyond.

Personally, I dislike active safeties. In a situation where I might need to use my firearm, there are plenty of things to think about without having to deal with mechanical barriers. This can be overcome with enough training, but I prefer to simply eliminate the variable.

Instead, I prefer DA/SA guns with a decocker. The long, hard first trigger pull is plenty for me to feel comfortable and safe carrying a loaded firearm with one in the chamber. The external hammer is an added bonus. My thumb is on the back of the hammer whenever I holster my firearm as it's near impossible for the DA trigger to be pulled when applying pressure to the back of the hammer.
 
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I am new to hand guns. For a holiday gift I already got my wife a tablet, for my gift she will buy me a hand gun (under $600) and either a concealed carry or other training class. In AK you don't need a concealed carry permit so I will be looking for some type of gun care and safety class.

I have shot rifles and have a few but never a hand gun. My rifles have manual safeties. Manual safeties are hard to find on handguns. I have been to several local gun shops as well as Cabell's & Walmart. (Walmart's gun people were pathetic they new less than I do) I have yet to find a manual safety on a 40 cal.

So I have a few questions for the Sig Talk forum:
1 is there a 40 cal semi auto with a manual safety?
2 how about a manual safety AND a de-cocker?
3 if they exist why are they so hard to find and can you tell me models to look oat and places to look?
4 I have read many things saying a 40cal is a good multipurpose handgun with more stopping power than a 9MM & more penetration than a 45 do you Agree
I have read that a 40 has a decent chance of stopping a black bear where 9mm's and 45's have no chance due to size and velocity. Can any of you verify or discredit that information.
1. M&P 40 with thumb safety
2. That would be pretty redundant, and would crowd your gun with controls.
3. M&P 40 is not hard to find and costs less than $600. Try GunBroker.
4. In humans, the stopping power of all the duty calibers is pretty much equivalent with modern self-defense ammo. For the thick fur and skin and heavy bones of a bear though, I'd be thinking about .357 Sig or 10 mm in a semiauto, or a .357 mag or .44 mag in a revolver.
 

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Do you need to worry about bears?

Planning to defend against 2 legged predators is very different from 4 legged.
 

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Sig 1911. 1911's have a manual safety. And a single action trigger. They also are a natural point and aim. The latter two usually allow folks to become a better shot quicker.

The .40 is a good round for self defense, but not superior to the .45ACP.

For large bear, most folks from Alaska prefer the .44 magnum or .454 Casull (e.g., the Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan, six shot revolver). They do not mention the .357 or .40.

Sig's 1911 are very well made. I now have two Sig 1911 TacOps and three Sig 1911 Ultras. Fit and finish are excellent. Accurate. Smooth. All have functioned flawlessly. The TacOps is slightly superior to the Springfield TRP (Springfied's number two model), but costs half as much.

For carry, you can look at the commander sized (CMD) or the Ultra. To get the Sig for $600 will take some significant web searching. Ruger also makes a 1911 full size and commander sized. I have read many good things about them, but do not own one.
 

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I still think he needs a D'Eagle in 50. Maybe the gold plated one... but that's like 7 times your price range...

Necessary.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks everyone and please keep the advice coming

1st I was thinking the 40 cal as I'd heard it was great as a self defense round and could stop a bear, particularly when you have 10+ rounds. The manual safety is a request from my wife. I did't think they would be so hard to find since all my rifles have a safe and fire switch/ secretor.

From what some of you have said, a SA with the hammer down may be just as safe as a manual safety.:confused:

Money is an issue, I do understand that there are much better guns to stop a bear, the big revolvers, my 30-06 even a 12 gauge with slugs. I don't often need a gun to stop a bear. However I'd had black bears in my back yard, often until I removed the raspberry bushes now just 6-8 times a year.

I wish I could get 3 hand guns and at some point I will. But now I can get only one so want one that need to be multi use.

2 popular (and paved) hiking / briking trails in in town often have signs up saying bears are in the ears. When you get out of town at all you could see bears most anywhere. Fishing (I love to fish) is dangerous it seems every year a few tourists get mauled or killed.

BTW I live in the Middle of Anchorage, the busiest 2 intersections in town are near buy, one less than a block the other 2 blocks. Moved to Alaska 12 years ago, Anchorage 7 years ago and am still amazed at the amount of true wildlife in town.

This is a great place to be. I want to get a hand gun before the next "Executive Oder" is issued banning them. If it doesn't happen shortly after November 4 he will for sure issue one prior to leaving office.
 

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Not sure where you got that we were recommending to carry a SA with the hammer down. 1911's are designed to be carried cocked and locked, hammer cocked, round in the chamber and the safety on. Same goes for single action only Sigs. Most Sigs are carried with one in the chamber and de cocked. It doesn't need a safety as you have to make a long heavy trigger pull on that first round.

As to caliber, it sounds like you have already decided on a .40 and are looking for confirmation. For semi autos, the 10mm is about the only round that can be used for hunting (in some states) that I know of, and there is a reason for it. It is sort of a magnum version of the .40. Whatever you pick is going to be a compromise. Only you can decide what is really important to you.
 

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CZ 75B (not 75BD). .40 cal, manual safety, excellent accuracy, excellent reliability, pretty, $600 or less depending on the state. Can't go wrong IMO

Btw. Obama using and executive order to "ban handguns" is an IMPOSSIBILITY. Don't know why you think it's inevitable but it just ain't gonna happen.
 

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Not sure where you got that we were recommending to carry a SA with the hammer down.
My guess is that someone (locally perhaps?) recommended a Single Action revolver that is carried with the hammer down. A lot of us "gun folks" are always thinking semi-autos since they are the coolest, snazziest things around, but there are a lot of folks out there who carry and use revolvers.

Although Anchorage is a large city, it is more outdoors than a lot of places here in the Lower 48 that consider themselves "rural". I have seen moose wandering around in a Burger King parking lot. And you can go salmon fishing in a wild river within the city limits within view of the center of town. And bears are regularly seen in the residential neighborhoods.

Something we need to keep in mind when we are talking about a "walking around in the woods" gun, it may be called on to serve two very different needs: defense against "soft skinned" two-legged critters, and defense against very much tougher four-legged critters.

Throw in the fact that defending against a wild animal attack is very much different than hunting that same animal. While hunting you get to chose the time and place to take an un-hurried, well aimed shot. Defense against an attack is the complete opposite in every variable. Plus throw in a lot of adrenaline and maybe a little panic and its a whole new ball game.

There are a lot of Internet discussions on guns and bears. Almost every gun forum has a couple of them from time to time. The consensus is that what works against humans (like super expanding hollow points) is the exact opposite of what you need with a heavily muscled bear. With a bear you do not need an expanding hollow point that will limit penetration. You need a FMJ or hard cast bullet that will have the most penetration available for your chosen caliber.

Now, on to your chosen caliber - bigger is probably better. For me (and there are plenty of folks with different opinions), for a woods gun for possible animal defense, I would not chose a 9MM or S&W 40 semi-auto. A full blown 10MM, maybe. There are lots of folks out there that say the 10MM is the perfect semi-auto woods gun.

A 45ACP, not with regular hard ball (FMJ), but with some of the hotter Buffalo Bore or similar loads might fill the need. I would want a 230 to 255 grain bullet moving at least 900 FPS.

The Internet consensus (for whatever that is worth) seems to be that a good woods walking gun / fishing gun is a revolver in 44 Mag (full power loads) or a 45 Colt with some warm 900 - 950 fps hard cast loads. Lots of folks like the Single Action revolver for this use, while others prefer the Double Action style, saying all you have to remember to do is pull the trigger (no hammer cocking involved).

The revolver (either SA or DA) has a couple of positives to offer in this particular case. Able to handle more powerful loads than a semi-auto. Is not ammo dependent for operation (i.e. no jams that need to be cleared).

Although revolvers do not have a manual safety to manipulate, they are very safe to carry around due to either the SA needing to be cocked or the heavy trigger pull of the DA.

My chosen gun for walking the bike path in Anchorage or fishing some of the remote streams would be a 357 Magnum revolver with extra heavy loads (180 grains) or a 45 Colt with some warm loads. I would feel comfortable with either.

I would also feel comfortable with my SIG P220 filled with some FMJ or hard cast 255's moving about 900 fps.

In akhandgunbeginner's price range, I would suggest he check out the various Ruger offerings. You can get either semi-autos with a manual safety (the SR-series) as well as SA and DA revolvers.

And to the akhandgunbeginner, welcome to the Forum.
 

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Based on the OP's latest post, I would still recommend a 1911. Certainly proven for SD.

As Newport pointed out, ammo along the lines of Buffalo Bore 230 grain FMJ running about 980 fps would be best.

With some searching, I strongly suspect he can find a Sig near his price range. If not, then the Ruger for sure.

A Ruger .44 mag revolver would meet the need, but would require buying used to meet the price requirement.
 

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point taken

I am new to hand guns. For a holiday gift I already got my wife a tablet, for my gift she will buy me a hand gun (under $600) and either a concealed carry or other training class. In AK you don't need a concealed carry permit so I will be looking for some type of gun care and safety class.

I have shot rifles and have a few but never a hand gun. My rifles have manual safeties. Manual safeties are hard to find on handguns. I have been to several local gun shops as well as Cabell's & Walmart. (Walmart's gun people were pathetic they new less than I do) I have yet to find a manual safety on a 40 cal.

So I have a few questions for the Sig Talk forum:
1 is there a 40 cal semi auto with a manual safety?
2 how about a manual safety AND a de-cocker?
3 if they exist why are they so hard to find and can you tell me models to look oat and places to look?
4 I have read many things saying a 40cal is a good multipurpose handgun with more stopping power than a 9MM & more penetration than a 45 do you Agree
I have read that a 40 has a decent chance of stopping a black bear where 9mm's and 45's have no chance due to size and velocity. Can any of you verify or discredit that information.
I take your points and understand - I do. I also was not wild about the lack of physical safety. Now, I'd have it no other way. You may want to see if someone you know has as no safety gun you can try. It is (for me) a different mental approach.

There is a part number for the 2022 WITH a manual safety, that however, doesn't mean the gun actually exists AND it's in 9.

If you want penetration you may want to look at .357 Sig.....

Larry
 

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I want to get a hand gun before the next "Executive Oder" is issued banning them. If it doesn't happen shortly after November 4 he will for sure issue one prior to leaving office.
Obama using an executive order to "ban handguns" is an IMPOSSIBILITY. Don't know why you think it's inevitable but it just ain't gonna happen.
The second quote here is correct. As to where the OP got that idea; I don't want to be insulting, BUT- sir, you live in Palin country. DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU HEAR, and especially if you hear it from someone with a political axe to grind about Obama. No President can establish law by Executive Order, he/she can merely tell the departments of the Executive Branch to do things (which also have to be legal, or it's an illegal Order). Read the Constitution and understand how the law works. Even if we signed on to the UN Arms Trade Treaty (unlikely in the current political climate), it still would not trump our 2nd Amendment. The UN is a diplomatic organization, not a governing body. The U.S. Supreme Court has reaffirmed our right to own handguns for self-defense. And Alaska is the very last state that is going to pass any laws restricting gun ownership in any form (tied with Texas, Arizona, I'm stopping this list because I will inadvertently offend someone by leaving their state out...).

It boils down to- no matter what any politician says about gun control, there is nothing he/she can do to restrict any type of firearm without a bill being passed and signed into law. Period.

And for the record, I suggest a P-series .40 caliber SIG, P-226 if you like full-size, P-229 if you want something a little more concealable. Both are extremely fine firearms. No manual safety, but perfectly safe nevertheless for a safety-conscious owner.

 

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intriguing!!

Since I just bought a .357 Sig this piqued my curiosity and since I had some time I did some research. I don't hunt and have no intention of putting myself near a bear (of any color).

But, survey says........ penetration, as per usual, is only part of the equation. Clearly "hunting" bear with these kind of calibers may even be illegal but to the very least it's not a good idea however, your point is trying to keep the family safe.

If *I* had your criteria (not with standing the manual safety) .357 Sig with 147 or heavier (if findable) FMJ. Pepper spray seems to have an even better track record.

Good luck!!

Larry
 

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I am new to hand guns. For a holiday gift I already got my wife a tablet, for my gift she will buy me a hand gun (under $600) and either a concealed carry or other training class. In AK you don't need a concealed carry permit so I will be looking for some type of gun care and safety class.

I have shot rifles and have a few but never a hand gun. My rifles have manual safeties. Manual safeties are hard to find on handguns. I have been to several local gun shops as well as Cabell's & Walmart. (Walmart's gun people were pathetic they new less than I do) I have yet to find a manual safety on a 40 cal.

So I have a few questions for the Sig Talk forum:
1 is there a 40 cal semi auto with a manual safety?
2 how about a manual safety AND a de-cocker?
3 if they exist why are they so hard to find and can you tell me models to look oat and places to look?
4 I have read many things saying a 40cal is a good multipurpose handgun with more stopping power than a 9MM & more penetration than a 45 do you Agree
I have read that a 40 has a decent chance of stopping a black bear where 9mm's and 45's have no chance due to size and velocity. Can any of you verify or discredit that information.
The FN FNX40 sounds like exactly what you're looking for. It's DA/SA with a manual safety that is also a de-cocking lever. They go for $500-$550.
Good luck in your decision and post pics when you buy!
 
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