[Gilly19]

All three of these carbines use pistol grip mags, making their overall length shorter than other PCCs. I have both the Sub2000 and CX-4 (among other 9mm PCCs) but I'm considering the new M&P FPC just to add to my collection. The achilles heel of the Berettta and S&W is that they take only proprietary mags, while the Sub2000 takes cheap and plentiful Glock mags. However, I like the idea of the side-folding M&P, especially with 23 round mags.

The Beretta CX-4 can be had for under $600; the new FPC is listed at $659 (but YMMV), and the Kel-Tec Sub2000 is on a fire sale at roughly $350 after rebate.

Any thoughts?

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/fpc

Cx4 Storm

The CX4 Storm is a tactical pistol-caliber carbine that takes Beretta handgun magazines. It is perfect for home- or personal defense, as well as for competition and law enforcement use.

www.beretta.com

SUB2000 Carbine Rifle | Powerful, Reliable & Accurate | Specs | KelTec

The SUB2000 is semi-auto carbine, with tons of pistol mag options. It folds for easy storage but deploys quickly. Offered in 9mm or .40 cal.

www.keltecweapons.com

PS: the M&P is already threaded and you can get the Sub2000 threaded version, and they're both US made. If you want to thread the CX-4 you'll have to make it 922r compliant (which IMO is not a big deal, considering Sierra Papa and US mags).

 

[Gilly19]

I just did a search for the M&P 23 round mags, and they're nowhere to be found. I suspect that this will ease up over time.

 

[Tgg]

I thought about getting a Sub2000 but I put it off because I didn’t really want to buy magazines that wouldn’t fit any handgun I own. Enter January 2023 and this effin state bans them. I never knew how much I wanted until that went into effect.

 

[Thebankerman]

I have a Keltec Sub2000 9mm. It takes Glock mags. I have a bunch of the 33 round mags. Gun has been completely reliable with all ammo and is very accurate. For the money you can’t beat it.

 

[Gilly19]

I thought about getting a Sub2000 but I put it off because I didn’t really want to buy magazines that wouldn’t fit any handgun I own. Enter January 2023 and this effin state bans them. I never knew how much I wanted until that went into effect.

I'm sorry to hear that. Hang in there.

 

[Gilly19]

I have a Keltec Sub2000 9mm. It takes Glock mags. I have a bunch of the 33 round mags. Gun has been completely reliable with all ammo and is very accurate. For the money you can’t beat it. View attachment 513193

Yeah, mine is also 100% reliable with Glock mags, and shoots soft and ACCURATE. My only serious question about the Sub2000 is the potential longevity of them. I guess if you buy one, you should buy two. This is NOT to knock the KelTec quality, but at half price of the competition, why not buy TWO just in case.

 

[Thebankerman]

Yeah, mine is also 100% reliable with Glock mags, and shoots soft and ACCURATE. My only serious question about the Sub2000 is the potential longevity of them. I guess if you buy one, you should buy two. This is NOT to knock the KelTec quality, but at half price of the competition, why not buy TWO just in case.

Mine has almost 5,000 rounds through it and no issues at this point.

 

[Thebankerman]

Yeah, mine is also 100% reliable with Glock mags, and shoots soft and ACCURATE. My only serious question about the Sub2000 is the potential longevity of them. I guess if you buy one, you should buy two. This is NOT to knock the KelTec quality, but at half price of the competition, why not buy TWO just in case.

My apologies. I should have read your post better. I would buy the Smith & Wesson. It would be a nice additio.

 

[Gilly19]

Just chiming in (on my own OP thread): the Sub2000 is an amazing rifle and an absolute STEAL for the price. But for me, there's something about the Beretta CX-4 that just "works". It's a typical blowback 9mm PCC, yes...but it handles so well AND with the SierraPapa trigger/hammer upgrades (roughly 3lb trigger) it's even better, especially for the overall length.

The only other PCC that I would put up against the CX-4 is the underrated PTR 9R [HK94 clone] (Buy 9R at $1858 - PTR) which I own and is INCREDIBLY accurate and reliable, even with affordable KCI Gen2 mags. If you can afford both the CX-4 and the PTR 9R carbine, I highly recommend them.

 

[KeeperofH]

I thought about getting a Sub2000 but I put it off because I didn’t really want to buy magazines that wouldn’t fit any handgun I own. Enter January 2023 and this effin state bans them. I never knew how much I wanted until that went into effect.

So, there's actually a few flavors of Sub2000 out there: a 9mm that only takes Glock 17 mags, a 9mm that takes Glock 19 or 17 mags, a .40 that only takes Glock 22 mags, a .40 that takes Glock 22 or 23 mags, and finally, the Multi-Mag version (in either 9mm or .40 S&W), that lets you change out the magazine catch to fit any of the following:

• P226 9mm or .40
• P320 9mm or .40
• Beretta 92 or 96
• CZ75 or 85
• M&P Full-Size 9mm or .40
• S&W 59 or 4006
• Canik TP 9mm

The mag catches are held in by two screws, so you can undo them and swap out catches as needed. I kinda took the long way around and originally bought my Sub2000 as the Glock 19 version, but got the parts to make it Multi-mag, and now it's set up to run P226 9mm mags. As others have said, it's a fun, stupid simple, surprisingly accurate gun, but I know I'll be upgrading some of the factory parts with the much nicer MCARBO parts to make it nicer/last longer. Though, for what it's worth, I've probably got 500-600 rounds through mine, and the only times I had any problems were when I used mags that I knew better than to try (Amend2 and ProMag).

...can you tell I'm a little bit of a fanboy?

 

[ConcreteMikePSI]

Bought a Freedom Ordnance FX-9 (9mm) with an 8" barrel. Put a red dot on top and it is a shooter like a mini-AR with Glock mags standard, last round locks back the bolt. You can hold 100 rounds in three (33 round) magazines and one up the pipe. Ran well over 2,000 rounds thru it before I lost it in a boating accident when the pistol brace ATF BS started......oops!

 

[Deputydave]

I have a couple of Sub 2K's. They have performed quite well and I don't recall having an issue. The ability to have a model that can use various mags is substantially nice. And for the Glock models, as noted, the mags are plentiful and inexpensive compared to other maker's mags and the 33 round fun stick is a big plus.

In regards to the M&P, if you want it...get it. Being a S&W it's probably a very solid PCC. It won't have the versatility of the Sub 2K in terms of mags but hopefully the proprietary mags will become available and for a good price.

 

[deserttrans]

I have a Keltec Sub2000 9mm. It takes Glock mags. I have a bunch of the 33 round mags. Gun has been completely reliable with all ammo and is very accurate. For the money you can’t beat it. View attachment 513193

 

[Tsantari14]

What do y’all think of the Ruger PC9 charger if a guy could pick one up
for $499? Takes Glock mags, some good aftermarket options like the Midwest industries hand guard, SB folding brace, binary trigger, etc!

 

[silverstring]

From your initial request, yes go ahead and get the FPC..Or you could try one of these:

 

[Gilly19]

Bought a Freedom Ordnance FX-9 (9mm) with an 8" barrel. Put a red dot on top and it is a shooter like a mini-AR with Glock mags standard, last round locks back the bolt. You can hold 100 rounds in three (33 round) magazines and one up the pipe. Ran well over 2,000 rounds thru it before I lost it in a boating accident when the pistol brace ATF BS started......oops!

View attachment 513251

I have one of these in the 4" version. I swapped out the factory buffer and tube for a 5" Strike Industries tube and buffer and put foam on the buffer. The entire package is amazingly small and handy.

 

[Gilly19]

What do y’all think of the Ruger PC9 charger if a guy could pick one up
for $499? Takes Glock mags, some good aftermarket options like the Midwest industries hand guard, SB folding brace, binary trigger, etc!

That would be fun, but at some point you'd have to remove the brace. But I did a Form 1 on a 22 Charger and I love it with a real stock.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

Something to keep in mind about the KT: Even though each caliber comes in three versions, you can convert between versions just by swapping the grip panels.
The way I see it, the Sub2K needs a lot of mods in order to be what the other PCC's are bone stock. You can't realistically mount any optic heavier than a red dot on the plastic handguard because it flexes too much. And if you do mount any sort of optic, you lose the folding feature. The solution to both problems is the Red Lion handguard but it's $180 without rails. Then you have the plastic feedramp, the nasty trigger, plastic sights, etc. Go look through the MCARBO website and price out parts. After your $100 rebate you will still be into it for $700.
I own a bunch of KT's and I consider myself a fan. But my experiences with them have taught me to be realistic about their products. Cheap plastic and goofy design features. They should respond to the Ruger PCC, the Henry, and the FPC by coming out with a third gen Sub that has a metal free float handguard and a single grip frame for all mag conversions, plus the ability to mount AR BUIS style sights. If they could pull this off for around $600 they would have a winner.

 

[Gilly19]

Something to keep in mind about the KT: Even though each caliber comes in three versions, you can convert between versions just by swapping the grip panels.
The way I see it, the Sub2K needs a lot of mods in order to be what the other PCC's are bone stock. You can't realistically mount any optic heavier than a red dot on the plastic handguard because it flexes too much. And if you do mount any sort of optic, you lose the folding feature. The solution to both problems is the Red Lion handguard but it's $180 without rails. Then you have the plastic feedramp, the nasty trigger, plastic sights, etc. Go look through the MCARBO website and price out parts. After your $100 rebate you will still be into it for $700.
I own a bunch of KT's and I consider myself a fan. But my experiences with them have taught me to be realistic about their products. Cheap plastic and goofy design features. They should respond to the Ruger PCC, the Henry, and the FPC by coming out with a third gen Sub that has a metal free float handguard and a single grip frame for all mag conversions, plus the ability to mount AR BUIS style sights. If they could pull this off for around $600 they would have a winner.

Wow. I couldn't have said that better. One of my Sub2000's has $350 of extras added just to help it fold, etc. In my experience, the Sub2000 is best when left as-is, as a truck gun or a spare go-to. They are affordable, accurate, and reliable.....but you don't know how long they'll last. These days, if you can get one for around $350 it's worth it just to have one handy.

 

[KeeperofH]

I own a bunch of KT's and I consider myself a fan. But my experiences with them have taught me to be realistic about their products.

I think this is what most people don't grasp. I love Keltec, and talk them up all the time, but it's not because they are the best company who makes the best guns; it's because they are (and have been for a while) one of the very few companies who isn't afraid to try new things. They're consistently innovative, even if that innovation isn't always...good? But they'll try something, make it work, the someone else will make it better; just like Apple. You wouldn't have the Ruger LCP series without the Keltec P3AT; you wouldn't have the Springfield Hellion without the Keltec RFB; you wouldn't have half the micro-9s out on the market without the Keltec P11 and PF9. The guns they inspired are almost always better, but wouldn't exist if a Keltec engineer hadn't said "ok, hear me out: I've got an idea, but it's a little crazy..."