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Laser for home defense pistol?

7K views 49 replies 22 participants last post by  chinch 
#1 ·
Hey Sig fans,

Just trying to see what the opinion in the forum of using a laser for home defense, I have never shot a pistol with a laser on it and know that they are generally a smart but if you spend the money and get a decent one but I wanted to know what you all thought and other than a battery going bad when you need it are there downsides? Also if you are in favor of it what model, TLRs seem to be a good bet without setting the wallet back tremendously!

Thanks for the input!
 
#3 ·
A lot of people think they are a bad idea because you can become dependent on them rather than your sights and proper technique. However, if you train properly, they can be of great benefit. There can be many real-life situations where using the sights isn't feasible or time doesn't permit. A laser is another tool in the toolkit that might give you the edge in some situations. I like them.

Check out Crimson Trace. They have a lot of free training videos online and that you can order that really demonstrate the value of having a laser; especially one that is activated instinctively by the grip.
 
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#5 · (Edited)
IMHO, having a laser on a gun for home defense make perfect sense. Think about it logically / unemotionally... if ****, you will not have the time to use the sights on your gun. You most likely will point & shoot. Rather than indiscriminately throwing bullets into the air toward a target, a laser's dot (red or green) will let you know (assuming you've sighted the laser to the POI of the bullet) where you're bullet is going. CTC (Crimson Trace) make grips that are designed to fit most Sigs (they make grips for other guns, too). Most of my pistols are equipped with CTC grips. THe exception is that I have a TLR-2 (Tactical Gun Mount Series - TLR-2® | Streamlight) on my P226 (my designated home defense pistol) because I want the benefit of the white light and the laser (I'm stirring the pot here as many do not subscribe to using a light; trained properly in it's use, I do not believe that white light is a liability)) if a situ arises in my home. This is how I view the utility of lasers on guns. YMMV.
 
#6 ·
I totally disagree. Throwing rounds around indiscriminately has nothing to do with laser or no laser... It has everything to do with muscle memory, training and trigger control.

I'm rather disappointed but not surprised that a NRA Range Safety Officer would advocate not always using your sights before pulling a trigger.

In my opinion, a laser is a **** poor replacement for proper professional training and the building of muscle memory and shooting competence with your firearm.
 
#8 ·
I have a laser on my home defense weapon. I use it exclusively to practice point shooting. I have been point shooting for a number of years and no longer can get to the range as much as I should. I unload twice and practice weekly by pointing at different objects at different distances. When I come on target I hit the laser button "CT grip" and check my aim.

I would never activate it for home defense, night or day.
 
#9 · (Edited)
It's good that we can agree to disagree! Ronin2, please clarify this sentence: "I'm rather disappointed but not surprised that a NRA Range Safety Officer would advocate not always using your sights before pulling a trigger. " What causes you to be surprised? NRA RSO training does not teach shooting. Nor is the use of sights included in the 4 cardinal gun safety rules as taught by the NRA (1.Treat every firearm as if it's loaded; 2. Never point a firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy; 3. Always be sure of your target and what is beyond it; 4. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and ready to fire.). As I said, in a '****' situ, muscle memory or not, I seriously doubt that anyone armed with a gun is going to take the time to aim down the sights. Why? Simple fact. Most individuals don't train for the worst scenario (home invasion would qualify as "worst scenario" in my book). Most gun owners, if they have any formal training at all, take a basic NRA pistol or NRA rifle course. Most CPL classes do not spend a lot of time on the correct use of sights. Only in advanced tactical training (like GunSite or Front Sight) is the issue of muscle memory emphasized. So I maintain that utility of a laser, mounted to a handgun and intended for home defense (as the OP stipulates), makes perfect sense. Having a laser on a firearm helps in a very tense, potentially violent situ. So I don't know what being an NRA RSO has to do with my P-O-V on this topic.
 
#13 ·
I had a CTC laser on a Glock 22 and thought I shot it well with or without the laser. Until I began taking real training classes and realized I was putting too much focus on the target because of the laser rather than the front sight.
No more lasers for me.


Sent via telegraph with the same fingers I use to sip whiskey.
 
#14 ·
I have a P226 with the Sig Light/Laser on it and a P250. I keep the light on the 226 for the light. I have found that looking for the laser slow "ME" down. The laser is not a short cut for training. there may be a case where it can have an advantage but in the end you will need to train with it just like you would have to train for sights. If you are hopping for a short cut to training and practice there just isn't one. The laser is a tool like many others. Practice and train with it and you will learn when you use to your gain. Don't train and practice and you could very well find it slowing you down. I shoot USPSA at least once a month. Not because I am that much into competing but it gets me out shooting once a month on the move and multiple targets. For what it is worth when I shoot twice a month I will move up 4 to 6 places when I drop to once a month I slowly drop back down. In the end there is no substitute for practice.
 
#15 ·
Luckily I do train as though there is only iron sights, in extreme situations many of the people saying a laser couldn't benefit might not perform 100% unless you've actually been exposed to **** hitting the fan I guess you can only say train your muscle memory (which is a exceptional point to make) I also agree that lasers can act as a crutch for many shooters and I am guessing the proper way to use it would only be if you specifically trained for an event to use it. I had no idea my question would arise such a difference in opinion, I do operate with a flashlight for home defense but thought a pistol mounted laser along with a light would be beneficial, I do think it may hurt previous training even practicing with a laser unless you checked with iron sights first. A lasers purpose may be an engagement with multiple attackers and only the fastest target aquisition would do, definitely has benefits but I think you would have a place in situations but without skewing your muscle memory and iron sight abilities.
 
#17 ·
Luckily I do practice as though there is only iron sights, in extreme situations many of the people saying a laser couldn't benefit might not perform 100% unless you've actually been exposed to **** hitting the fan I guess you can only say train your muscle memory (which is a exceptional point to make)
I have made a slight, although important, edit to your initial statement. My use of the words training and practice, when it comes to firearms education, have completely different meanings that are worth differentiating.

Training is the work you do with a professional firearms instructor, showing you techniques and explaining scenarios and how to properly react with your firearm.

Practice is the work you do on your own time, refining and honing these skills you have acquired from the professional training.

A semantic difference, some might consider not even worth considering, I see it as important and very well worth distinguishing one from the other.
 
#24 ·
#20 ·
I love lasers for dry firing practice. LaserLytes give instant feedback as to where a bullet likely would have gone, especially on that first DA shot. At the range, a shooter may fire many rounds and have no idea which shot went where. The instant feedback tells a story that allows for better practice for trigger control at lower ammo cost, less travel cost and more productive use of limited time. That said, there is no substitute for live fire since recoil and muzzle blast induce many bad habits in shooters.

I have a laser grip on most of my pistols. This takes a commitment to change the batteries regularly.

The lasers are of little use in bright light, so proper use of iron sights is critically important. In fog, an active laser will give away your position and tell the bad guys to kill the guy with the laser first.

Masad Ayoob aims his lasers to run parallel to the path of the bullet, i.e. to never cross when mounted to the side of the slide. Hence the laser will be good out to 50 yards or whatever, but be off the same amount at all practical distances.

The biggest advantage of the laser sight is the ability to rapidly acquire targets in low light.

Bill
 
#28 · (Edited)
...Massad Ayoob aims his lasers to run parallel to the path of the bullet, i.e. to never cross when mounted to the side of the slide. Hence the laser will be good out to 50 yards or whatever, but be off the same amount at all practical distances..
Crimson Trace laser grips are set up to be bore sighted out to 50 yards from the factory, and should be kept that way for the same reasons.
 
#21 ·
I personally don't advocate lasers for defensive situations because it telegraphs your position instantly to your target. In high stress situations most people get too tied up looking for the dot Instead of seeing the big picture. Anything that sucks you into a tunnel is bad in a high stress situation. Get too tied up down range looking for the dot and you may very well not see the other bad guy at your 4 o'clock. I also don't like the use of lights for the same reason. A weapon mounted light should only be used at the last second to blind and identify your target not to poke around with.

Lasers are a good tool for offensive situations when your coming in hot with your eyes down range. In that instance it's likely everyone is already going to know your coming anyway.
 
#27 ·
I personally don't advocate lasers for defensive situations because it telegraphs your position instantly to your target. In high stress situations most people get too tied up looking for the dot Instead of seeing the big picture. Anything that sucks you into a tunnel is bad in a high stress situation. Get too tied up down range looking for the dot and you may very well not see the other bad guy at your 4 o'clock. I also don't like the use of lights for the same reason. A weapon mounted light should only be used at the last second to blind and identify your target not to poke around with.

Lasers are a good tool for offensive situations when your coming in hot with your eyes down range. In that instance it's likely everyone is already going to know your coming anyway.

That's called tunnel vision and can happen whether or not you have a laser.
That is poor/inadequate training.

You need take a serious look at the training scenarios in which they very well can give you an advantage. Many, real-world situations.
 
#22 ·
Nothing will ever prepare you for a **** moment but proper training will help every time. How one responds is the hallmark of training... knowing what to do and what NOT to do can save your life and the lives of others. There are no situations where 'a deer in the headlights' is the right response but, sadly, this happens all too often. If you own a firearm and only use it for target shooting, then get trained in precision / target shooting. For many of us, continued / advanced tactical training is essential in preparedness for the instance where 'things fall apart'. And things inevitably do, unfortunately. So being prepared and having proper training to fall back on is essential. The operative word here is 'proper'. Ask around for recommendations and do research before you commit. I mentioned GunSite and Front Sight in my earlier posts... excellent training facilities with experienced, knowledgeable instructors. Many can speak to and teach from 1st hand experience.

I'll stick with my original post, though. A laser will help most (+95% of gun owners) in a home invasion situ.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Nothing will ever prepare you for a **** moment but proper training will help every time.
Very true. The advantage of good training with a knowledgeable guide through your training us when you face a scenario, it will not be the first time you experience it and you won't be ad libbing in a life and death situation. You will be utilizing time tested and proven techniques to save yours and your loved one's lives. Akin to CPR and tournequet training, all invaluable life saving techniques.
 
#32 ·
One other thing I will note. If you are of the type that can't separate your right hand from your left or one finger from the other do yourself a favor and stay away from add ons.
Had a guy here years ago that couldn't separate his left hand trigger finger for his light from his right hand trigger finger for his trigger under stress no matter how hard he tried. I'll let you guys figure out how that went.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Wife has very weak vision (albino), the laser is perfect for her. As a bonus at the range the laser showed me that she was yanking the trigger. She has the Hogue laser grips on her Sig 1911 (non railed). At 65 my night vision really sucks so I added a Viridian XL5 to my P220's rail. I like not having to handle a flash light and a gun, knowing me at crunch time I'd try to pull the trigger on the light.
At the range I use the laser for 1 or 2 mags and spend the rest of time trying to focus on the front sight. I also have the wife practice point and shoot and with a torso sized target she gets it done.
Ronin, we have our reasons for using lasers, I don't think any of us think it will replace practice or muscle memory. But don't think anyone has the right to say it's a waste of time and money. I think if you take this any further you might be mistaken for a Democrat.
 
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#35 ·
Ill put my .02 in here For me a laser unless in a combat situation with multiple team members IE clearing a building at night to acutally see fields of firea nd muzzle sweeps. SO lasers for me are a waste they have a use but if you have a laser and become use to it then in my opinion you get lazy and loose learned skills. Here is a sceniro you get your laser and your pumped and you use it to practice then the newness wheres off how many cycles have you done and what type of battery life is left so you stop using it now you have a real life SD incedent you queeze the grip and poof no dot your instinct will be to look before you squeeze the trigger hence slowing you down where as if you practice point and shoot from low ready or retension position since like has been stated you may never get to eye level in an encounter but that most likely wont be a home SD that would be a street SD and you should be training on how to gain prescious fractions of a second to put distance between you and would be attacker so you can float the dot and take the shot. In a SD scenireo time is the factor so the less outside influences you have I feel the quicker you will be. I only want to rely on my training and reflexes to get me thru I don't want to end up depending on technology to save me .My weapon alone is the only technology I should need worry about let alone other gadgets. ok end of rant
 
#38 ·
A lot of red dots in a dark area at night can be a bunch of fun. Everyone is moving the wrong dot around and shots become flack.

As I said, I use it only for training. The switch is never on at any other time.

I am point shooting to 15 yards, 15 to 25 yards I am shooting over my shoulder, 25 yards to the grave serpentine.
 
#36 ·
I don't think anyone suggested that you only train with the laser.
You have the option not to turn them on.
The Crimson Trace laser grips have a master power switch to shut them off for "non-laser training" or just for "plinking".
You learn to change the batteries like you do with many other critical battery operated equipment. The batteries last longer on red lasers but technology is progressing and I hope to start converting to green lasers soon. I was hoping it would be Crimson Trace green laser grips but unless you are buying for a Sig 1911, Crimson Trace seems to be ignoring Sigs in the development of green laser grips.

As a side note Crimson Trace makes mil-spec lasers grips with both red and IR lasers for designating targets at night. I just think that is cool for the military and LEOs.

I think it is interesting that lasers generate about as much division among firearms owners as do caliber or religion...or whether or not the 1911 is still relevant. :D

I consider it another tool. If someone else doesn't, that's cool. I can learn both methods.
 
#40 · (Edited)
Brayden,

I am of the opinion that I will equip my home defense pistol with every advantage possible and legal. I mount a TLR-4 light/laser combination to my home defense pistol. When I go to the range, I sight in the laser to the most common distance I predict I may have to shoot. I then shoot at different distances and make note of the shift in POA/POI using the laser. I also take it to training classes.

Here is my home defense pistol. It's the one I keep in the ready access safe.





Glock 22 Gen4

  • Trijicon RMR
  • Suppressor height night sights
  • TLR-4 Light/Laser
  • Extended and ported barrel.
  • +2 Magazine base plates

If suppressors ever become legal in Illinois, I'll get a threaded barrel and mount a suppressor so I don't go deaf defending my life.

Some say it's a bit over the top, but that doesn't bother me one bit. If it would be advantageous to use the laser in a given scenario, I have the option to employ it. The Trijicon RMR is always on. With it I can easily gain a fast sight picture with both eyes open, which aids in avoiding tunnel vision. If for some reason I can't get the perfect presentation as long as I can see the RMR's dot, that's where the round will go. If all else fails, I practice with iron sights.

Better to have the options available than not.
 
#46 ·
My HD gun is a P2022 .40s&w and has a Veridian laser on it. MY Ruger LCR, P239 .357sig, P220, SAR K2 .45acp, and my wifes Bodyguard .380 all have various lasers. As mentioned, another tool. My P239 & P220 have CT laser grips. These grips fit me really well, so the laser is a bonus. We have coyotes around and when I take the dogs out at night the SP2022 goes with me. I have no illusions that I can hit a coyote, but I won't hit a dog using the laser. YMMV
 
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