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Is the P320 really any safer than a safety-off 1911

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Ok, this is not a troll question. I am strongly considering getting a P320 for carry, but this issue concerns me.

The average (obviously there is a lot of variation) trigger weight for a defensive 1911 is 4.5-5.5# (according to Hackathorn it's 5.1#).

The P320 ships with a nominal pull of 5.5#. It has no external safeties, or even a tabbed trigger. (also, many people even use the Apex trigger, which supposedly drops the pull by ~2#). How is this any different than carrying a cocked 1911 with no safety. (I realize that the P320 striker is only 90% tensioned, but I'm focusing here on ND/AD's revolving around the actual trigger mechanism, not the gun being dropped, so it seems that the pull # is really all that matters). Is the increased length of pull alone considered enough? (Most DA/SA guns the really on pull weight as a "safety" have one in the 9-12#r angel)

Thanks.


EDIT: I probably should have added this a a while, but I am referring to serio-80 1911's. Trying to compare apples to apples here (essentially any SAO gun with a some safety and all modern internal safeties (BHP, P226 SAO, USP/P30/HK45 when cocked, etc) and locked could stand in - in fact a 1911 might even be a little unfair to compare, since it also has a grip saftey
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Probably not safer to a negligent discharge via user error, but probably safer to drop-firing and such. Stock I'd say the break weight of a P320 is closer to 7lbs. and overall the travel is a bit longer than a 1911's.
 

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A lot of people are carrying striker fired pistols, with a round in the chamber and no safety or safety off though...So I don't get your point?

The argument I hear is the longer pull and the internal safeties make it safe. On Striker heavy forums, you get treated poorly for wanting/using a safety...I like a thumb safety on a carry gun.

If you can trust yourself to keep your finger out of the trigger guard, I can trust myself to swipe the safety. And my way means I'm in peril if I fail, their way means someone else is in peril if they fail.

I also believe the huge majority will never have to fire our gun in defense (thank goodness) so it makes more sens to keep it safe for the 99%-100% of the time.
 

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Ok, this is not a troll question. I am strongly considering getting a P320 for carry, but this issue concerns me.

The average (obviously there is a lot of variation) trigger weight for a defensive 1911 is 4.5-5.5# (according to Hackathorn it's 5.1#).

The P320 ships with a nominal pull of 5.5#. It has no external safeties, or even a tabbed trigger. (also, many people even use the Apex trigger, which supposedly drops the pull by ~2#). How is this any different than carrying a cocked 1911 with no safety. (I realize that the P320 striker is only 90% tensioned, but I'm focusing here on ND/AD's revolving around the actual trigger mechanism, not the gun being dropped, so it seems that the pull # is really all that matters). Is the increased length of pull alone considered enough? (Most DA/SA guns the really on pull weight as a "safety" have one in the 9-12#r angel)

Thanks.
I second what Mo said. The primary difference btwn the standard striker fire trigger and a 1911 style SA trigger is uptake/travel to break. The P320 trigger does not have a safety built into it like the Glock, HK or M&P, but it does have the internal safeties that make all modern guns inherently safer than the 1911s of old. Make sure you have a holster with a trigger guard, and practice reholstering safely and you will be fine. Keeping the finger off the trigger and ensuring no foreign bodies employ to trip the trigger is always a plus, but there is definitely more forgiveness with the P320 than the 1911. I believe 1911s are really for more advanced shooters who have been trained to use the gun whereas striker fire guns are much easier to train to use, generally speaking.
 

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BRING THE POPCORN.

The "a lot of people" argument cuts both ways... a lot of people voted for Obama & Hillary.

The real answer - market condition and buyer "feelings" aside - is closer to nope. See grip and series-80 drop safety of the 1911... plus at least you can holster the condition-0 1911 with thumb on cocked & unlocked hammer. Also the 1911 wont fire with front pressure applied on the barrel.
 

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Is the P320 really any safer than a safety-off 1911

Yes.
The 1911 does not have the firing pin block that the P320 has. Only after the trigger is pulled back sufficiently to release the sear, does the firing (striker) pin block get pushed up and out of the way. In theory, should the pistol drop, and the striker loose grip on the sear, it cannot go forward due to blockage of the safety. Personally, I have tried this on both my .45 and 9mm with just a primed brass, no powder or bullet, and using a large rubber mallet and repeatedly striking it at all different angles, could not get the striker to make the primer go bang. I am sure that my "raps" were more than what the firearm would experience in just being dropped from a height of say 4-8 feet.

That being said, there are times to be especially cognizant about carrying you P320; when you holster it, and when you draw it from the holster. The other day I noticed that when I had my coat on and re-holstering the P320 that the zipper was getting in the way in the holster. Having a zipper IN the trigger guard as you try to shove a P320 back into position can lead to disaster. Make sure any garment or zippers or anything like that is fully clear. When you draw your P320 out, make sure of your fingers and that they are NOT anywhere near where the trigger is. You'll have plenty of time to get a finger on the trigger, even in a life or death situation.
 

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A lot of people are carrying striker fired pistols, with a round in the chamber and no safety or safety off though...So I don't get your point?

The argument I hear is the longer pull and the internal safeties make it safe. On Striker heavy forums, you get treated poorly for wanting/using a safety...I like a thumb safety on a carry gun.

If you can trust yourself to keep your finger out of the trigger guard, I can trust myself to swipe the safety. And my way means I'm in peril if I fail, their way means someone else is in peril if they fail.

I also believe the huge majority will never have to fire our gun in defense (thank goodness) so it makes more sens to keep it safe for the 99%-100% of the time.
I agree with you. To me my biggest responsibility CCW a pistol is to ensure the safety of those innocents around me that I encounter every time I have my pistol on me. My thought is it probably is a 1 in 1000 to 1 in 10,000 that a CCW will ever need to be used to defend yourself. If an innocent is ever shot by my pistol, while in my possession, my life and my family's will change forever. I would have to live with the guilt and grief, and most likely be sued for everything I got. 50 years of savings/investing gone, home equity gone, prison time a possibility, and divorce a big possibility. Lots of responsibility comes with carrying a pistol.
 

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heavy da pull weights aren't a safety.
True, but they do require significantly more force to pull than the standard striker fire trigger. I think that is an "added measure" of safety as it relates to accidental discharges.
 

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To the OP....also keep in mind that the little 'dingus' lever on striker-gun triggers is primarily a drop safety....in that if the gun is dropped on its rear, the lever 'anchors' the trigger bar from moving back under the momentum of the drop/hit. With the P320 however, unlike guns such as the Glock/PPQ/VP9/M&P, the trigger shoe-to-bar linkage is such that when the trigger is pulled rearward, the trigger bar is actually cantilevered forward to rotate the sear and such.

So by design, the trigger shoe and bar are always working in opposite directions which would counter each other if the gun is hit or dropped on either end. Hence, no mechanical need for the trigger dingus (even though they apparently offered one as an option).

As confident as I am in my trigger discipline, for appendix carry I don't go with a Glock-type/non-external-safety striker pistol. I go with either a Springfield XDS which has the grip safety, or a CZ 75 PCR which is double-action first shot. Reason being that holstering with my thumb back up over the rear gives me an added measure of safety from something getting caught in the holster and affecting the trigger.
 

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I agree with you. To me my biggest responsibility CCW a pistol is to ensure the safety of those innocents around me that I encounter every time I have my pistol on me. My thought is it probably is a 1 in 1000 to 1 in 10,000 that a CCW will ever need to be used to defend yourself. If an innocent is ever shot by my pistol, while in my possession, my life and my family's will change forever. I would have to live with the guilt and grief, and most likely be sued for everything I got. 50 years of savings/investing gone, home equity gone, prison time a possibility, and divorce a big possibility. Lots of responsibility comes with carrying a pistol.
The best defense against negligent discharge is awareness. Be aware of the platform you're carrying and train with it religiously. Lack of focus is our enemy.
 

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And to understand that as humans we are fallible no matter how much we train for, especially in conditions of extreme stress and fear.
Under extreme distress there is no guarantee anyone is going to not negligently discharge a gun that has an external safety. To each their own, but training is the best defense regardless. When you train you're more aware of your limitations and better prepared to deal with them than simply relying on a mechanical device to protect you against poor decisions.
 

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Under extreme distress there is no guarantee anyone is going to not negligently discharge a gun that has an external safety. To each their own, but training is the best defense regardless. When you train you're more aware of your limitations and better prepared to deal with them than simply relying on a mechanical device to protect you against poor decisions.
I never mentioned external safety in my reply or anywhere in this thread. Just saying we are all fallible regardless of any training and to plan accordingly and understand all the potential consequences.
 

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I never mentioned external safety in my reply or anywhere in this thread. Just saying we are all fallible regardless of any training and to plan accordingly and understand all the potential consequences.
Right on, brah!
 

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Striker fired guns with no external safety have had ND/AD over the years with many occurring when re-holstering and or pulling the trigger to break down. Where as DA/SA guns have a heavy double action long pull as there safety like a revolver and 1911's with a grip safety and thumb safety with some 1911 being series 80 type in case the gun is dropped on its muzzle. If the 1911 thumb safety were off there is still a grip safety. If you are talking about 1911 style cocked and locked w/o a grip safety like the SAO Sigs, that I am not sure of. I would only purchase one for competition and not for concealed carry.
Striker fired guns are unforgiving and no real play in the trigger. One reason the military had a frame mounted safety added to the new government contract P320.
Just as important for striker fired guns are the holster select and how you carry it. Israel Mossad carries Glock 19's w/o a round in the chamber.
I have all 3 types of guns but prefer DA/SA or Cocked and Locked 1911's over striker fired guns for concealed carry.
One thing I would recommend is when you choose the type of gun to carry train train train and keep the same manual of arms and pick a good holster.
I carried a revolver for work then transitioned to DA/SA when my department switched. Many PD's switched to striker fired guns do to ease of training and price of the guns back in the 90's when Glock was finally accepted by law enforcement.
I hope this helps..
 

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As confident as I am in my trigger discipline, for appendix carry I don't go with a Glock-type/non-external-safety striker pistol. I go with either a Springfield XDS which has the grip safety, or a CZ 75 PCR which is double-action first shot. Reason being that holstering with my thumb back up over the rear gives me an added measure of safety from something getting caught in the holster and affecting the trigger.
People could (and do) have never-ending arguments over the technical and qualitative differences in guns, trying to analyze how much safety is involved in X pounds of difference in trigger pull or X fraction of an inch of trigger travel.

Mo's response is very telling, coming as it does from an individual who is demonstrably very knowledgeable and thoughtful about guns. When the stakes are high enough, Mo does not quibble over minutiae, but opts for the solution that provides the potential for the most possible protection. :D
 

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Just my 2cents

I think an important note here would be to not focus as much on the weapon but more on the person and the holster. If you put getting a quality carry holster (not always a fancy one) and having discipline to keep your weapon in your holster when not actively defending yourself I would say the 1911 or the 320 would be safe weapons until you intend them not to be?
 

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Just my 2cents

I think an important note here would be to not focus as much on the weapon but more on the person and the holster. If you put getting a quality carry holster (not always a fancy one) and having discipline to keep your weapon in your holster when not actively defending yourself I would say the 1911 or the 320 would be safe weapons until you intend them not to be?
Agreed. The gun isn't what's unsafe. It's the person.
 

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Well, I would say that the P320 is safer to carry than a cocked and unlocked model 1911 in general. Most stock P320s are going to have a trigger pull weight that is at least somewhat greater than that of a model 1911. Also, some model 1911 pistols have very little pre-travel (trigger take-up) compared to a P320, and even in those that do have significant pre-travel, the take-up pressure is very light.

Series 80 type model 1911s do have a firing pin block, as has been mentioned. But Series 70 type pistols do not. In a properly set up model 1911, the thumb safety when engaged locks the sear in position. The grip safety when not depressed prevents trigger pull, but does not lock the sear in position. So in a Series 70 pistol with the hammer cocked and the thumb safety off, a severe jar could result in "sear bounce" causing the hammer to drop. Hopefully in this event, the "half-cock" hammer notch would capture the hammer before ignition, but that is not a guarantee.

Most of my pistols are either DA/SA or DAO hammer-fired. I do own two P320s one of which I keep for home defense and do not intend to carry. I am considering carrying my P320 compact OWB but still feel safer carrying my hammer-fired DA/SA or DAO pistols, and I would not consider carrying a striker-fired pistol IWB.

The longer and heavier trigger pull of an un-cocked double action revolver, DA/SA pistol, or DAO pistol or revolver is no absolute guarantee against an accidental or premature discharge, but I think that most everyone who has trained with this type of handgun would agree that a discharge requires a much longer, usually heavier, and therefore much more deliberate trigger pull that reduces the likelihood. Hammer-fired pistols also afford greater safety during rehosltering since the uncocked hammer can be "ridden" with the thumb.

Ultimately, the decision of what type of action and trigger mechanism is safest or best, and whether or not to have an external manual safety, is a personal one. If you feel safer carrying something other than a striker-action pistol, or choosing to carry a striker-action pistol with an external manual safety, then that is the right choice for you.
 
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