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This thread is pretty interesting, in a convoluted way. A while back, I asked why a person would buy a polymer framed firearm, and then add weights or an alloy frame. I was told that some would like the weight and balance characteristics of a normal steel/alloy firearm, but with a striker fired action. I conceded that point. At another time I asked why a person would buy a polymer framed, striker fired firearm and then do a lot of customizing, to the point that the brand is unrecognizable. I was told that many don’t like the plain Jane looks (sorry to any Janes out there. I certainly dont think you are plain, and wouldn’t say it out loud if I did) and just want to personalize it. I conceded that point. Now we are discussing the option of going aftermarket on the only remaining original part of the firearm.

This leads to a serious question. If some company offered a firearm made entirely of random parts made by someone else, but it came in a box with a Sig, or Beretta, or any other name printed on it, would you buy it? Keep in mind, it can have zero parts made by the naming rights party who provided the box. The Sig mosquito doesn’t count, as that was a blatant fraud. And don’t try to pull some AR assembler stuff on me. This is a serious question, and there is no wrong answer.

Extra credit- What if there was no name on the box, like a store brand?
 

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I have no problem with folks "spending a couple hundred dollars on their polymer pistol to make them better." Lord knows they - as nearly every other mass-produced firearm - need it. Even the vaunted Olympic target pistols get treated with anatomical grips custom-made to fit their owner's hand at much more than a couple hundred dollars. You can easily spend more than double the cost of your P320 buying all sorts of factory and after-market parts to make it fit you, and these may or may not help you shoot/control the pistol better. You are preaching to the choir here. What I am saying is that one can get lost in the weeds buying stuff to help you improve your interface with the pistol, thereby helpiing you to shoot it better, but what has that part actually done to make the pistol itself more accurate - or, in the case of triggers, made the trigger even approach current-day "match-quality" standards? Would the money be better spent on training/shooting? How many of us are truly capable of shooting to the maximum accuracy of the stock pistol, regardless of whether it is a P320, P226, CZ75/85/.or (fill in your favorite maker) 1911 after addressing the usual problems of sights and (doing what one can) with the pistol's trigger pull?

I would be very interested to see just how much more accurate a stock P320 is made at 25 & 50 yards off a bench rest and a Ransom Rest by simply changing out the OEM FCU (the actual firearm) with one of the SIG Custom Works FCUs. Then, installing an equivalent trigger and having trigger work done to the OEM FCU to give a it a comparable trigger pull (if there really is any improvement other than the shape of the trigger), and running accuracy tests at 25 and 50 yards and seeing what difference, if any, there is between the pistol equipped with the two FCUs. As you say, there is much developmental work to be done on the P320 platform as far as accuracy improvement goes, such as what difference (if any) might be made by "bedding" or fitting of the vaunted modular FCU in the host "grip module", just what effect the selection or fitting of the grip module to the slide and FCU has on consistency of lock-up, or if there is room for improvement in the grip modules by adding longer rails for more slide-grip module interface/stability, what with the inherent flex in the plastik frame/module. It will be interesting to see how the various armed services Marksmanship Units address accurizing the P320, much less the private industry, which presently seems to focus on cosmetic "improvements".

What I have been saying all along is, don't expect magical results by parts-swapping. Put your money where it will do you the most good: training and trigger time.
 

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Precision Polymer has a sort of ring to it.
Yes, just like "Glock Perfection"...
Polymer Pistols are great defensive arms. They are cheap, reliable, and disposable - every Glock, P320-whatever, CZ P07/10 whatever, S&W M&P is just like the next in the rack. Will it work? Most likely. Will it do the job of a defensive sidearm? Absolutely. Would you pick it for your next NRA Bullseye match? Hardly.
 

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I'm sure there are polymer guns which rival their metal counterparts in the accuracy dept. However, when you pull the trigger on a .45 overpressure round in a polymer gun; at that instant, you will wish for an all-metal frame.
 

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SNIP
do you really believe that any of the Plastik pistolen are capable of such accuracy or that of the P210, or the 1911 and CZ75/85 platforms - which continue to dominate the other shooting disciplines? Do you really believe that spending hundreds of dollars more on a "precision" P320 fire control unit will make it so?
SNIP
Accuracy in a semi auto pistol is about the barrel, slide, and sights.

I got to play with a nice open gun built up on the defunct lone wolf all metal glock frames. Glocks aren't bad out of the box once you deal with the plastic slide cut protectors they label as sights. But this sucker was NICE and very accurate. A noticeable difference compared to a similar plastic framed glock open gun. Unfortunately like all those frames, it cracked and died and that's why they don't make them anymore.

The whole sub-frame setup of the 320 gets you most of what that metal frame got you though, and the 5" x-5 style uppers are already quite accurate along with sig barrels generally. I doubt they give much if anything up to the non bushing CZs.

Going to a machined FCU might get you a better slide to frame fit, which would feel nice. It might get you a little more consistent sight/dot presentation under recoil. You could probably get the same doing some tig welding on the FCU rails and hand fitting them.
 

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The proverbial silk purse out of a sow's ear... Plastik Pistolen were never designed, nor conceived as match target-grade bullseye pistols. They do very well at what they were designed for: Combat. If you want a combat pistol capable of match-grade, X-ring accuracy at 50 meters, get a P210 - or a custom 1911 built by someone who knows their way around the design. The P210 will be cheaper.
Nope. I’d stay with a Glock, P320 M17 or VP9 or a Beretta 92 with a Langdon Trigger Job.

All can plug a man at 50 yards under compressed time constraints.

I think 50 yard pistol shooting should be a standard stage for the military, too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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As I have said, all Plastik Pistolen are capable of "combat accuracy". Their triggers - even those of the vaunted Walther PPQ - do not come close to a tuned 1911 match trigger, which makes wringing out their best accuracy a challenge. I have no problem with folks spending big bucks on their sidearm du jour (God knows I have), I think spending that $400+ on a shooting class would give most folks a better return on their money than spending it on a "billet" FCU which, based on the difference a Custom Works FCU makes over a stock FCU trigger has shown, would have a negligible effect on their scores.
 

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As I have said, all Plastik Pistolen are capable of "combat accuracy". Their triggers - even those of the vaunted Walther PPQ - do not come close to a tuned 1911 match trigger, which makes wringing out their best accuracy a challenge. I have no problem with folks spending big bucks on their sidearm du jour (God knows I have), I think spending that $400+ on a shooting class would give most folks a better return on their money than spending it on a "billet" FCU which, based on the difference a Custom Works FCU makes over a stock FCU trigger has shown, would have a negligible effect on their scores.
We are not talking about training vs upgrades... Why are you still trying to derail the thread?

And like I said before the 1911 and similar pistols were originally designed as combat pistols with combat accuracy. How much is one of the “match grade” 1911s/similar pistols?
 

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Well, Jack, I'd say that giving a "rack-grade" off-the-shelf Colt or SIG 1911 a $200 trigger job gives you more value/cost beneift trigger improvement and shooting performance benefit than spending $300-$400 on a Custom FCU for a P320. My comment that spending hundreds of dollars on a P320 trigger job or FCU fails to make any night vs. day difference (i.e.: silk purse out of a sow's ear") is valid. True, there is, or may be, "some" improvement, but nothing like what can be accomplished with a 1911, P210, or CZ 75/85/SP01 platform. If machining everything in the FCU out of billet or forgings would achieve the magnitude of benefits that P320 aficionados hope for, don't you think SIG would have already done it? Someone in the aftermarket already tried it, but it seemed to have died stillborn. Anyone know why? More power to those who wish to spend hundreds of their dollars for a trigger that is only "a little less spongey" or "creepy", and/or has "a little less overtravel".
 

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As I have said, all Plastik Pistolen are capable of "combat accuracy". Their triggers - even those of the vaunted Walther PPQ - do not come close to a tuned 1911 match trigger, which makes wringing out their best accuracy a challenge.
Generally, yes. I have met some nicely worked XD triggers that other than being hinged rather than straight pull got REALLY close.

Well, Jack, I'd say that giving a "rack-grade" off-the-shelf Colt or SIG 1911 a $200 trigger job gives you more value/cost beneift trigger improvement and shooting performance benefit than spending $300-$400 on a Custom FCU for a P320. My comment that spending hundreds of dollars on a P320 trigger job or FCU fails to make any night vs. day difference (i.e.: silk purse out of a sow's ear") is valid. True, there is, or may be, "some" improvement, but nothing like what can be accomplished with a 1911, P210, or CZ 75/85/SP01 platform. If machining everything in the FCU out of billet or forgings would achieve the magnitude of benefits that P320 aficionados hope for, don't you think SIG would have already done it? Someone in the aftermarket already tried it, but it seemed to have died stillborn. Anyone know why? More power to those who wish to spend hundreds of their dollars for a trigger that is only "a little less spongey" or "creepy", and/or has "a little less overtravel".
Is there a $200 1911 trigger job? I mean realistically if you want a really good one, you are replacing parts (usually at least hammer and sear) and shipping a gun overnight someplace plus spending $150+ on labor. For $200 you can do a cylinder and slide drop in. Which I have done a couple of. They are pretty nice but still a pretty big delta relative to a good job done by a good gunsmith.

As for not being able to make the 320 trigger anything but mush, the current set up on mine is 2.5-2.75 pull with almost no take up and a bit of overtravel. It's more than the cylinder and slide kits though.

As for a billet FCU, I doubt it would improve accuracy. But if, as the video of that one above claims, it makes it much harder to trash your ejector on a slide lock reload with an extended mag, then it might be worth it. Sig won't do it because stamped steel likely gets them 95% plus of the results machining would cheaper, faster, and in higher volume.
 

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Well, Jack, I'd say that giving a "rack-grade" off-the-shelf Colt or SIG 1911 a $200 trigger job gives you more value/cost beneift trigger improvement and shooting performance benefit than spending $300-$400 on a Custom FCU for a P320. My comment that spending hundreds of dollars on a P320 trigger job or FCU fails to make any night vs. day difference (i.e.: silk purse out of a sow's ear") is valid. True, there is, or may be, "some" improvement, but nothing like what can be accomplished with a 1911, P210, or CZ 75/85/SP01 platform. If machining everything in the FCU out of billet or forgings would achieve the magnitude of benefits that P320 aficionados hope for, don't you think SIG would have already done it? Someone in the aftermarket already tried it, but it seemed to have died stillborn. Anyone know why? More power to those who wish to spend hundreds of their dollars for a trigger that is only "a little less spongey" or "creepy", and/or has "a little less overtravel".
your posts go around and around in circles creating a lot of commotion but not accomplishing anything of actual substance.

But please, do continue to enlighten us of your great wisdom which has been picked at enough already. Actually better yet, since all you want to do is crap all over this thread, there is the door, see yourself out?

you still have yet to inform us on the cost of a match grade 1911 yet.... I have asked multiple times but you keep skirting the question... Wonder why?
 

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I daresay a Colt Competition 9mm (MSRP $899) with a National Match trigger job by Colt Custom Shop ($250 - about what Wilson Combat or NHC will do it for) will likely shoot circles around your P320-whatever. It would be an interesting comparison. I am not crapping on this thread. I'm just pointing out that the Plastik Pistolen's trigger is what it is and if people want to spend close to $400 bucks for mediocre (IMHO) results, that's fine by me. It's like giving a trophy because you showed up and were the most improved - but still not a "winner"r.
 

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I’m just pointing out that the Plastik Pistolen's trigger is what it is and if people want to spend close to $400 bucks for mediocre (IMHO) results, that's fine by me. It's like giving a trophy because you showed up and were the most improved - but still not a "winner"r.
That is not what you are pointing out and you are completely missing what the thread is about.

There are many upgrades to the P320 triggers that do not cost anywhere near $400... But this thread is not about triggers so as you fail to read and instead drifted this thread into “your opinion” which really, the OP did not ask about your opinion of how you feel the 1911 is better.. Keep in mind Browning was constantly upgrading his designs and the Hi Power was the improvement of the 1911 so there is that.

So if you could, spare us you hatred of polymer hand guns (why else do you keep trying to be cute in calling them in a German tongue “Plastik Pistolen”) and talks of 1911s, CZ75, P210. Your opinion is like the old saying that everyone has one..
 

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When we're talking about Plastik Pistolen, we're not talking about 50-yd./meter B-27 or NRA Bullseye target X-ring accuracy standards, we're talking about IPSC/IDPA A-Zone hit capability and a trigger action that enables one to do that. I have no hatred of Plastik Pistolen. I've carried them for years by choice in lieu of a 1911 and later, by fiat. Now that I am retired, I have a choice. The P320 and its variants are fine pistolas. They are cheaper to make and service than the P220-series, but I don't believe that even SIG thinks they can be tweaked as well as a P226 All-Around for accuracy, both inherent/intrinsic - and with a trigger tuneable such that it maximizes the shooter's ability to utilize/realize what's there. I don't know why you've been whining about the present shortcomings of Plastik Pistolen. After all, they have not been around very long. People can spend all the money in the world they want on the sidearm that sings to them. Maybe in 111 years, someone will find a P320 M17 or M18 that's been stashed in someone's safe forever and say, "What a Classic..." I'm just the guy sayin', "Don't expect miracles when you spend Big $$$ on a bunch of parts that cost 2-4 times (if not more) as much as a stock P320." YMMV, but be happy with the choices you've made as I am with mine.
Typed this minute with my (bone-stock) P365 in my RH pocket in a PCS Tomahawk pocket holster and two 15-rd. reloads in the other...
 

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When we're talking about Plastik Pistolen, we're not talking about 50-yd./meter B-27 or NRA Bullseye target X-ring accuracy standards, we're talking about IPSC/IDPA A-Zone hit capability and a trigger action that enables one to do that. I have no hatred of Plastik Pistolen. I've carried them for years by choice in lieu of a 1911 and later, by fiat. Now that I am retired, I have a choice. The P320 and its variants are fine pistolas. They are cheaper to make and service than the P220-series, but I don't believe that even SIG thinks they can be tweaked as well as a P226 All-Around for accuracy, both inherent/intrinsic - and with a trigger tuneable such that it maximizes the shooter's ability to utilize/realize what's there. I don't know why you've been whining about the present shortcomings of Plastik Pistolen. After all, they have not been around very long. People can spend all the money in the world they want on the sidearm that sings to them. Maybe in 111 years, someone will find a P320 M17 or M18 that's been stashed in someone's safe forever and say, "What a Classic..." I'm just the guy sayin', "Don't expect miracles when you spend Big $$$ on a bunch of parts that cost 2-4 times (if not more) as much as a stock P320." YMMV, but be happy with the choices you've made as I am with mine.
Typed this minute with my (bone-stock) P365 in my RH pocket in a PCS Tomahawk pocket holster and two 15-rd. reloads in the other...
Cute, you have an opinion...:rolleyes:
 

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Well, Jack, I'd say that giving a "rack-grade" off-the-shelf Colt or SIG 1911 a $200 trigger job gives you more value/cost beneift trigger improvement and shooting performance benefit than spending $300-$400 on a Custom FCU for a P320. My comment that spending hundreds of dollars on a P320 trigger job or FCU fails to make any night vs. day difference (i.e.: silk purse out of a sow's ear") is valid. True, there is, or may be, "some" improvement, but nothing like what can be accomplished with a 1911, P210, or CZ 75/85/SP01 platform. If machining everything in the FCU out of billet or forgings would achieve the magnitude of benefits that P320 aficionados hope for, don't you think SIG would have already done it? Someone in the aftermarket already tried it, but it seemed to have died stillborn. Anyone know why? More power to those who wish to spend hundreds of their dollars for a trigger that is only "a little less spongey" or "creepy", and/or has "a little less overtravel".
I would not expect SIG to have tried it. They are so late on what they've promised already, and they prefer paint colors and slide cuts to actual improvements/accuracy
 

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I think the engineering gnomes at Eickenford believe they have hammered out all there is inherent to the P320/365 platform. After all, they have closed up shop. Sort of like in Lord of the Rings... in the depths of the Dwarf Kingdom of Moria. The orcs and The Plague have forever changed the world as we know it.
 

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When we're talking about Plastik Pistolen, we're not talking about 50-yd./meter B-27 or NRA Bullseye target X-ring accuracy standards, we're talking about IPSC/IDPA A-Zone hit capability and a trigger action that enables one to do that. I have no hatred of Plastik Pistolen. I've carried them for years by choice in lieu of a 1911 and later, by fiat. Now that I am retired, I have a choice. The P320 and its variants are fine pistolas. They are cheaper to make and service than the P220-series, but I don't believe that even SIG thinks they can be tweaked as well as a P226 All-Around for accuracy, both inherent/intrinsic - and with a trigger tuneable such that it maximizes the shooter's ability to utilize/realize what's there. I don't know why you've been whining about the present shortcomings of Plastik Pistolen. After all, they have not been around very long. People can spend all the money in the world they want on the sidearm that sings to them. Maybe in 111 years, someone will find a P320 M17 or M18 that's been stashed in someone's safe forever and say, "What a Classic..." I'm just the guy sayin', "Don't expect miracles when you spend Big $$$ on a bunch of parts that cost 2-4 times (if not more) as much as a stock P320." YMMV, but be happy with the choices you've made as I am with mine.
Typed this minute with my (bone-stock) P365 in my RH pocket in a PCS Tomahawk pocket holster and two 15-rd. reloads in the other...
My x-5 legion is more accurate for me than my custom 2011. Mostly because it's a better ergonomic fit for me that makes it much easier to get more consistent trigger finger placement. That being said, I've met the 226 x-five all around. I was not impressed with it for the price. The out of the box trigger was nice, but didn't blow my skirt up. I'd rather have a worked shadow than one.
 
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