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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have used SR in place of SP for 15 plus years and am not shy about it.

I always test and frankly this test thru me for a loop

M11A-1 with 4.17" (Canadian) barrel
CCI #500 SP and #400 SR using a Dillon 550C and loaded at the same time one after the other using Alliant Power Pistol and Hodgon HS-6

First comparison was with Alliant Power Pistol at 5.6g
Small Rifle average velocity 1171FPS
Small Pistol average velocity 1180FPS
No, I did not accidentally reverse them
No, it is not a misprint
Yes, the SP averaged 9FPS more then the SP.

Second test was with Hogdon HS-6 @ 5.8gr
Small Rifle average velocity 1053FPS
Small Pistol average velocity 1080FPS

Again, that is not a mistake

6.2g Small Rifle average velocity 1123FPS (Did not run SP for 6.2)

I do not recall ever getting higher velocity from SP over SR but then past testing was with other primer brands or brand against brands

This was a WUT???? result to me

Recoil was nice with all loads as these two slower powders tend to push more and the faster powders snap more
 
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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Edit above
 

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Click the three buttons on the upper right hand corner of your post to edit it.

Anyway, thats the first time I had seen small pistol primer velocity higher compared to the SRP. Did you weigh the powder individually? What about the OAL, are they the same for the lot you’re comparing?

I weight my charges on a beam and electronic scale when doing comparison tests like this. I have seen as much as .2 Gr variation on a Dillon PM on my 550, 650 and 1100.
 

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Like George16 said, hit the 3 vertical buttons on the top right to edit.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Everything was the same, all Federal cases, all RMR 124gr FMJ all done on the 550 which gives me good loads on the pistol (rifle can vary more but the volume is higher)
The velocity range high to low was exceptionally tight with these 5 strings

I too have never seen higher velocities from pistol primers over rifle

My last test compared Winchester SR to CCI SP and there was a 12FPS increase with the WSR over the the CCI SP and even that tells me it is far safer than the lawyers will admit as long as we stay in the mild range to be extra safe
 

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With 115 gr. FMJ and 6.5 gr. of Power Pistol and SPP my chrono reads about 1200 FPS with a standard deviation on 8. This is my usual reload.

With 115 gr. FMJ and 5.8 gr. of Power Pistol and SRP my chrono read about 1200 FPS with a standard deviation of 14. With 5.4 gr. of PP velocity was 1163 FPS and with 6.0 gr. it was 1207 FPS. The SD with SRP was the lowest at the 5.8 gr. load so I stopped at 6.0 gr.

I would have bet, and given odds, that, everything else being equal (bullet, powder, load), the SRP would generate higher velocity than SPP. I wouldn't expect a lot of difference, maybe 25 to 50 FPS.

Different manufacturers' primers might account for Wulfmann's results, but he used only CCI.

I'm baffled.
 

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Same brand of case in all rounds? A variation in case volume can cause pressure/velocity variations.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
All federal cases, all CCI primers, all RMR 124gr FMJ the only difference was a 2 part test to compare HS-6 and PP to see if that mattered at all.

Had I for a minute thought SRP would have less velocity than SPP I would have also loaded some Vit N340

I was expecting 10-15 FPS higher with SRP so this for me was unexpected or downright Wutsville
 
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OP,
All dependent on internal case volume & powder burn rate & Bbl length.

Try 2X the internal case volume ie 40S&W or 10mm or 45 Super.

try 3X the internal case volume ie 44Mag or 454 Casull.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Good point Dan and anyone reading this and/or similar threads need to understand the results should be considered specific and narrow
While this would be safe enough for 9MM 115g I would start from scratch with 147gr

I have never used SRP in any other caliber than 9MM.

The advent of SPP cases in 45 would be a very different story as the flash width being more narrow in the SRP it would be something I would want someone else to try first (See my sig)

The need now is a lack of SPP and even SRP where as LPP & LRP can be found and for a lot less than Small anything making small worth double or more so I doubt anyone needs to bother at this point.
I have a buch of 10MM cases and they are all LPP
 

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Wulfmann thanks for starting this thread - very interesting!

I have heard about using small rifle primers in place of small pistol but did not believe it was 1) possible or 2) safe to do so (with pistol cartridges.)

I have both small rifle and small pistol primers on hand, but more demand for the small pistol variety. I reload 9x19mm with 125 gr. RN cast lead; .38 Special with 125 gr. RN cast lead, and .357 Mag with 158 gt. lead SWC.

Question for the expert reloaders out there: would it be safe to use small rifle primers as a substitute for small pistol in these (above) reloaded pistol rounds?

Thanks much!
 

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Wulfmann thanks for starting this thread - very interesting!

I have heard about using small rifle primers in place of small pistol but did not believe it was 1) possible or 2) safe to do so (with pistol cartridges.)
I have both small rifle and small pistol primers on hand, but more demand for the small pistol variety. I reload 9x19mm with 125 gr. RN cast lead; .38 Special with 125 gr. RN cast lead, and .357 Mag with 158 gt. lead SWC.

Question for the expert reloaders out there: would it be safe to use small rifle primers as a substitute for small pistol in these (above) reloaded pistol rounds?
Thanks much!
Land Cruiser,
Primers of small diameter SmPistol/SmRifle are basically the same diameter.
The SmPistol primer cup is usually thinner by design since pistol cartridges run to 37,500-40,000 psi.
The SmRifle primer cup is usually thicker to deal with the 50-60,000 psi pressures that rifle cartridge run to.
Rifle primer cups depending on manufacturer may be TALLER than their brothern Pistol cups manufactured from the same manufacturer.

If said rifle primer does not set .003"-.004"below flush in the pistol case DO NOT attempt to seat it deeper into the primer pocket.
Cut the primer pocket accordingly to achieve the desired primer seating depth.
Segregate the above brass if the pockets are cut deeper since seating a pistol primer will result in FTF/light primer strikes.

Measure the height of said primer
Take Notes
Load just a piece of brass(NO pwdr/bullet) w/ the desired primer & step out to see if your stock or modified hand gun will ignite it.

There are pistol cartridges designed to use rifle primers & rifle cartridges designed to use pistol primers.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Land C IMO (worth as much as you paid for it) you are fine with all three using a start load
You did not mention either powder or primer brands and that matters

While CCI has the hardest primer cup it also has the lowest burn temp while Federal has the softest cup and the hottest burn rate

This makes, IMO again, CCI the safer primer being the SRP and SPP are almost if not the same thing

The idea they are the same might explain why my test had the SPP giving higher velocities than the SRP as it may be as simple as a different batch but that is a guess

When you step outside the box you stop and check each step. never jump to a conclusion
 

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Thanks DansSIGs and Wulfmann for the replies.

I believe all the primers I have (both SP and SR) are Winchester brand.

None of these handloads (9mm, .38 and .357) are hot; more mid-range level.

Powder? Either Bullseye or Unique.
 

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Thanks DansSIGs and Wulfmann for the replies.

I believe all the primers I have (both SP and SR) are Winchester brand.

None of these handloads (9mm, .38 and .357) are hot; more mid-range level.

Powder? Either Bullseye or Unique.

Sneak up w/ Unique loads in less than 1/2gr increments since it is of Flake powder design.

Bullseye throws consistent charges since it is a Ball powder.
 
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