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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm sure the answers to this will vary quite a bit, but I'm curious, so I'll ask it anyway.

Some of you see a lot of shooters. Do you have a guess at how well the average hand gun shooter shoots at, for instance, a 25 yd target?

What would you say an "average" 5 shot group size would be?

What would a "good" 5 shot group size be?

Answer for both offhand and from a rest.

Specify firearm if you think it makes a big difference.

Edit to add: Please don't ask me to define average, I can't. Use your own definition.
 

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I would say that the "average" handgun shooter would not be able to group 5 out of 5 shots on a chest-sized target at 25 yards offhand.

Out of 5 shots taken, I would guess he/she would get 1-2 hits, if any.

From a rest (I assume you mean sandbag, range bag, or similar, and not a proper Ransom rest), I'm guessing the "average" shooter gets maybe 2-3 hits out of 5 shots.

Remember, few of us here are marksmanship experts, but we are gun enthusiasts, so we train more than your average Jane and Joe. Don't let that perspective skew your understanding of what "average" is, if we are including all comers. The "average" pistol shooter is pretty horrible, as the ROs and instructors here can surely testify.
 

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My shooting is probably not as good as I feel like it is. At 25 yards on a 12" target somewhat taking my time standing unsupported I am about 50% on the target. So group size......uh maybe 2' lol. Not using a target pistol or anything fancy. Never shot from a rest with a pistol. I think when I really slowed down I did better. I just joined a range for the first time and have to slow fire there. I normally would not do that. I might slow fire a few here and there or do a couple double taps or triples. But a lot of times I will just walk toward away from or side to side from the target and just empty the mag. I feel in some ways that might be better practice for a confrontation with the BG than slow firing for accuracy at 25 yards on a stationary object. Not to say that accuracy and slow fire are useless. I plan on gettting some better sights for my G21 and trying to become more accurate with it. I will say that at the range the other day I was all over the target at 25yards but I noticed there were 5 or 6 shots grouped together in about 2.25". whatever I was doing for that particular string was working!

But to answer the original question I would say about like me. Way bigger than people want to admit. Obviously there are some awesome shooters out there. But the average guys.......really probably just suck in comparison.
 

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Shooting off-hand with iron sights at 25 yards, if I get 5 shots inside a 12" target, I feel as if I am doing reasonably well.

I have certainly seen hand gun shooters at the ranges I visit who can shoot much better than I do, but I would say that the majority do not do as well.
 

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Out to about 12 yards, I can keep my holes on a 6" paper plate. At 18 yards I shoot 9" plates and keep most (7+) on target. At 25 yards, I use 2 legal size sheets making a 16ish inch square. I'm happy if I put holes in it, forget about something I could call a group. I don't shoot at 25 often, 40-100 rounds a year. 7-15 yards is where I train for stand and shoot. 3-7 yards is where I train. With duck n cover/moving drills.
 
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No way of knowing average out of tens of many tens of millions of pistol owners and I am sure it would be very poor. Many/most I see at the range have difficulty getting all shots on paper at 7 yards and I doubt they could get a single shot on paper at 25 yards offhand unless it was just a lucky shot.

IMO a "good" group at 25 yards offhand would be around 10 inches about on center of target when taking time to make shots count with a combat style handgun where the mechanical accuracy of the pistol may be around 3-4 inches with cheaper range practice ammo. On a good day I can usually get 12 of 15 shots on an 8 inch target at 25 yards. I focus more on 7-15 yards and most at seven yards. I like to see where my shots hit as I make them and use splatter type target. At 7 yards I try to get 8 out of 10 inside a 2 inch circle on center, with the other 2 close, by of target at 7 yards offhand when I slow down for more accuracy. When increasing speed to 1-2 shots a second accuracy does suffer somewhat but not dramatically. I usually don't shoot any faster than about 2 rounds a second or I will get grief from my range where they say max is 1 round a second.

At 25 yards the front sight post on my pistol covers the whole dang target. I might get better results shooting "6 o'clock" pumpkin on the post at that distance. I RARELY see anyone shooting pistol at 25 yards at my range.

IMO measuring groups needs to be a deliberate effort in that I am shooting 5-10 shots and all those are included in the group and not shooting 50 rounds and measuring the 5 shots closest together LOL.

I shot this a while back with my P226 at 25 yards. Looks like 2-3 missed target entirely but I was happy with the results. Target is 8 inches.



A couple weeks ago shooting my PPQ at 7 yards, 10 rounds.

 

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I have not shot lead into a target 25 yards away since I was in my late 30's, I have to believe that since I am now in my 50's the suck factor is at an all time high if I were to attempt it. :lol:
 

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I guess based off of your criteria I am probably a below average shooter. Shooting for groups with a handgun at 25 yards isn't something I'm very good at.

If I want to shoot groups I'll do it with a rifle.

For me a handgun is a close range, last ditch defensive weapon.

When I compete in my local IDPA matches I will usually place somewhere around 7th or 8th out of 25 to 30 shooters. In my mind, finishing in the top half of the field means I'm above average when it comes to my skills.

I'm guessing my groups offhand at 25 yards would be about 10-12" with a flyer every five or six rounds or so.

Handgun selection definitely makes a difference for me. If you told me we were going to be shooting groups at 25 yards I'd probably show up with a P226 or possibly a VP9. I don't own a 1911 right now but if I did you can bet that's what I'd show up with.
 

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When I compete in my local IDPA matches I will usually place somewhere around 7th or 8th out of 25 to 30 shooters. In my mind, finishing in the top half of the field means I'm above average when it comes to my skills.
If you are finishing in the top third among a field of competitive shooters, you are way, way, above "average."
 

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If you are finishing in the top third among a field of competitive shooters, you are way, way, above "average."
It can be a little misleading. We do have a few new shooters that seem to show up that have never competed so I should finish ahead of them. We also have a few shooters who are a bit older and don't have the speed, dexterity, or eyesight they once had. While I'm no spring chick at 46, I do have a physical advantage over those guys. Then there are always a couple of guys that will just have a bad day. I guess what I'm saying is as long as I'm not one of the guys having a bad day it isn't too hard to finish in the top half of the field.

I compete to have fun and because it's the best way I know to practice my handgun handling and reloading skills.
 

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I don't train at that distance. Max distance at my range is 50 feet and I don't have any issues getting target mass with about 75% of my rounds just goofing around. Would love to get a Smitty Performance Center .44 caliber and practice at longer ranges or even hunt with it. That would be a good time.
 

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"Will" is a 12X20 inch AR500 steel silhouette.

This was shot with my X-Five AR at 25 yards. Looks like two shot in none vital areas.

Fire At Will!

I'd say I'm pretty much an average handgunner around here.
 

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I'm sure the answers to this will vary quite a bit, but I'm curious, so I'll ask it anyway.

Some of you see a lot of shooters. Do you have a guess at how well the average hand gun shooter shoots at, for instance, a 25 yd target?
From my personal experience and observation at various ranges, what I would consider to be the "average" handgun shooter does not shoot well at all and would fail this test most assuredly. Most don't even shoot out to 25 years often enough to become proficient at that range, nor do they really seem to shoot enough to be any good at distances of 15 yards in. What I have normally seen is shooters shooting at targets btwn five to seven yards, and taking their time carefully aiming with all sorts of grips, mind you, spraying the targets with no discernible pattern or intended grouping as if they are pleased they hit the target at all. This suggests to me they have not had any training to know how to shoot proficiently, let alone know they need to be able to obtain a particular score of any kind.

What would you say an "average" 5 shot group size would be?
I would say that at a range of 25 yards the average handgun shooter will do well to hit the area center mass five times shooting a magazine of 15 rounds.

What would a "good" 5 shot group size be?
At 25 yards a "good" group size should be within 12 inches. Excellent would be within 6", and outstanding would be inside 3", IMO.

Answer for both offhand and from a rest.
For me, from the rest at 25 yards, taking my time, I should be able to put five shots inside 3", and this should be the same for either hand b/c you're resting the gun on a stationary balance. Offhand without a resting position, however, would be another matter. I would be happy to get five shots in the center mass in a magazine of 15 shots.

Specify firearm if you think it makes a big difference.
For the average shooter I definitely think the caliber and size of the gun will make a big difference. For an experienced shooter it will have an affect; however, I do believe there will be less of a difference for experienced shooters. Honestly, I believe the average handgun shooter probably shoots their gun maybe two to three times a year. The above average shooter probably will shoot at least once a quarter while what I consider to be a proficient shooter will shoot monthly. Those who shoot weekly will be noticeably more proficient and able to obtain much better scores.

Shooting is a perishable skill meaning a certain level of proficiency isn't something you can obtain and maintain without doing it often. It is very easy to tell experienced shooters from inexperienced shooters, but even beyond that it is easy to tell those who shoot weekly from those who don't. And, it is easy to tell those who train with moving targets, shifting from different positions, etc. from those who only shoot at the range on lanes. It's all a matter of the time one commits to it.
 
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Reading this I don't feel so bad..I have 2 buddies who are excellent ( did I say EXCELLENT?) shots so I base my progress on them ( bad idea)....

I try to stay within 5-7 yards because I'm still learning...

At 25 yards? Dunno... Maybe I'd do better as I'd really have to focus....
Do I want to get better!? Heck yeah but I shoot for fun and of I ever (God forbid) have to really defend myself..I know it'll be at less than 5 yds

And.. Watching " most" people around me at the range.. They are like me.. They suck

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 

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From my personal experience and observation at various ranges, what I would consider to be the "average" handgun shooter does not shoot well at all and would fail this test most assuredly. Most don't even shoot out to 25 years often enough to become proficient at that range, nor do they really seem to shoot enough to be any good at distances of 15 yards in. What I have normally seen is shooters shooting at targets btwn five to seven yards, and taking their time carefully aiming with all sorts of grips, mind you, spraying the targets with no discernible pattern or intended grouping as if they are pleased they hit the target at all. This suggests to me they have not had any training to know how to shoot proficiently, let alone know they need to be able to obtain a particular score of any kind.
This is exactly what I see too though quite a few try to shoot as fast as they can, typically when they have a friend along to try and impress, disregarding range rules and they are lucky to get half their shots on a large target at 5 yards but seem pleased that they hit the target at all. :rolleyes:

Now that I am retired I only go earlier on week days and in general people I see then shoot better and are much safer in gun handling practices. On weekends I am amazed no one gets shot and am grateful for the bullet proof dividers between lanes.
 
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I have no reason to train or bother shooting at that distance. I train up to 7 yards and that's it. My training is for self defense not target shooting. Shooting at someone at that distance you would have a hard time calling it SD if you found yourself in court.
 

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Don't shoot 25yds yet. Mostly 5, 7, and 15yds with 2 hand grip. At 15yds I can, P224 9mm, get all 12 shots on an 8.5 x 11 target with at least 3 in the 2" bullseye. Old guy with bad eyes and drink to much coffee :lol:

Peter
 

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I'm at the range 2-3 times a week and many of the folks of all ages and both sexes I see there can't shoot their handguns with any degree of accuracy at almost any range down to 5 yards.

Lots of them try to "make up" for lack of skills by rapidly depleting their high capacity magazines in the direction of their target.

Sad but true.
 
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