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"How Much Capacity Is Enough For Private Citizen Gunfights? (ASP Compilation)" video and POLL

8355 Views 243 Replies 100 Participants Last post by EddienFL, 8 d ago

Sheepdogged

Discussion Starter · 1 mo ago

This is the full-length version of the video, and it is very good in my opinion. It makes me want to carry my Beretta PX4 Storm Compact more with its 20 rounds.

watch.activeselfprotection.com

How Much Capacity Is Enough For Private Citizen Gunfights? (ASP Compilation) - Compilation - Active Self Protection

A compilation of 22 defensive encounters that show how many rounds private citizens use in gunfights

watch.activeselfprotection.com

watch.activeselfprotection.com

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201 - 220 of 244 Posts

TXGRunner

· #201 · 29 d ago

hiketheball said:
Huh?!?
[snip]

If giraffes are sticking their necks through the windows to eat your breakfast off the dining room table, I think you're in Wild Country Safari...or 19th century colonial Africa.

Skip Kirkwood

· #202 · 29 d ago

Sig-Pile said:
I took a range class where it was specified "Belt holsters" only. One guy showed up with a G17 in a Miami Classic.
The instructor says, You need a belt holster.
The guy says, This is the only holster I use.
The instructor, says, A requirement of the class is to follow all instructions. We are not starting off well.
The guy starts to protest and the instructor holds up his left palm as if to say stop, then draws the guy's Glock with his right hand, drops the mag, ejects the chambered round, then hands it back to the guy and says, Go find a belt holster.
He didn't come back.

I sold my Hi Power Miami Classic when I got home.

Match Massad Ayoobon the Wilson Combat YouTube channels. He does a whole thing on "why shoulder holsters are good." IMHO, especially when riding for a long time in a vehicle, or hanging around casual when you don't care if you show. It's all about how the holster fits YOU. I understand the range thing - they don't want you flagging others when drawing - but if it's time to fight, that's the worst of your worries.

Reactions: 1

TXGRunner

· #203 · 29 d ago

hiketheball said:
[snip]
On the whole, you statements are politically charged in a direction that I don't like.

"More Freedom! Fewer Laws!"

Exactly.

What does "safe storage" have to do with mag capacity limits?

How does the way somebody else stores their weapons at their home raise concern have their drawing a pistol to stop a threat?

Reactions: 2

Sig-Pile

· #204 · 29 d ago

Skip Kirkwood said:
Match Massad Ayoobon the Wilson Combat YouTube channels. He does a whole thing on "why shoulder holsters are good." IMHO, especially when riding for a long time in a vehicle, or hanging around casual when you don't care if you show. It's all about how the holster fits YOU. I understand the range thing - they don't want you flagging others when drawing - but if it's time to fight, that's the worst of your worries.

Agreed.

Coincidentally, Mas was about thirty feet away when this incident happened. I am not saying they don’t have their uses. But I think a lot of folks, admittedly like myself at the time, miss the cues on where you can get by with one.

The other funny Miami Classic, story I know, is from someone who worked on Miami Vice as an production intern. Don Johnson always had two jackets, one sized to fit over the holster and one to wear all the other time. So when he had to draw the gun, he put the holster on and the 2nd larger jacket over it. If you go back and watch you can totally see this at times. My friend told me they were days were all he did is walk around, holding Don Johnson’s 2nd jacket and holster. I guess they’re worse jobs when you’re a 21 year old film school student.

Reactions: 3

tvanorden

· #205 · 29 d ago

hiketheball said:
Huh?!?
If I watch the nightly news, it is becoming the mythical "Wild West"!
More and more, I hear, from a variety of people, is that our governing society is breaking apart.

It started with street people dumping water on the police, and the police just walked away. Those who assaulted police officers should have been prosecuted to the full extent of the law. See under "Broken Windows Theory".

Reactions: 4

Chris.lorine

· #206 · 29 d ago

TXGRunner said:
While I support secure/proper storage, I am unclear on how their storage at their home makes you concerned when they have to present in public to stop a threat.

My response was aimed at the thought that simply buying a firearm isn't a solution. There should be a complete mindset to ownership. I carry a firearm when I leave my home. I carry it in my home often because I go in and out of the house too much to be bothered taking it off. I train every week and use various shooting drills aimed at overall proficiency rather than simply "hitting the bullseye. I train others every week. When I am discussing their new purchase of a firearm with a range attendee, I discuss with them the benefits of taking the CCW classes and other firearm courses available at the club. We have various levels of skills training that go from beginner to full tactical. I do not get paid for their participation in any courses I recommend. I just feel strongly that responsible firearm owners should have a complete system for their purchases. They need to know their responsibilities (legal and personal), and they should have a proper holster and be shown how to use it. (I personally have a "box of holsters" that just didn't work for me for one reason or another) And. to complete the ownership circle, they should understand that having a safe for the storage of the firearm when not on their person is something to be considered because this prevents their purchase from being stolen during a robbery or accessed by a child. They should also have a holster system that works for their lifestyle.

I strongly encourage everyone who can legally own a firearm to consider it. If they decide to purchase one, I am thrilled to help them learn how to use it, I will go with them to the range and assist them while encouraging them to take training courses. I believe that training courses are a means to increase proficiency and familiarity while building muscle memory.

To address your comment on my previous comment, it goes to the firearm ownership mindset that should exist. Someone who is personally responsible with their firearm will usually be better armed to "defend" themselves and not harm others because they understand the law and their responsibilities and they regularly practice. They become better-armed citizens because they practice regularly, are trained, and practice the skills of drawing and shooting on target. They also practice the skills of moving and shooting. They understand that they are responsible for every round leaving their firearm. I take my CCW seriously and try to pay it forward with every interaction with a non or new gun owner.

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tvanorden

· #207 · 29 d ago

Chris.lorine said:
My response was aimed at the thought that simply buying a firearm isn't a solution. There should be a complete mindset to ownership. I carry a firearm when I leave my home. I carry it in my home often because I go in and out of the house too much to be bothered taking it off. I train every week and use various shooting drills aimed at overall proficiency rather than simply "hitting the bullseye. I train others every week. When I am discussing their new purchase of a firearm with a range attendee, I discuss with them the benefits of taking the CCW classes and other firearm courses available at the club. We have various levels of skills training that go from beginner to full tactical. I do not get paid for their participation in any courses I recommend. I just feel strongly that responsible firearm owners should have a complete system for their purchases. They need to know their responsibilities (legal and personal), and they should have a proper holster and be shown how to use it. (I personally have a "box of holsters" that just didn't work for me for one reason or another) And. to complete the ownership circle, they should understand that having a safe for the storage of the firearm when not on their person is something to be considered because this prevents their purchase from being stolen during a robbery or accessed by a child. They should also have a holster system that works for their lifestyle.

I strongly encourage everyone who can legally own a firearm to consider it. If they decide to purchase one, I am thrilled to help them learn how to use it, I will go with them to the range and assist them while encouraging them to take training courses. I believe that training courses are a means to increase proficiency and familiarity while building muscle memory.

To address your comment on my previous comment, it goes to the firearm ownership mindset that should exist. Someone who is personally responsible with their firearm will usually be better armed to "defend" themselves and not harm others because they understand the law and their responsibilities and they regularly practice. They become better-armed citizens because they practice regularly, are trained, and practice the skills of drawing and shooting on target. They also practice the skills of moving and shooting. They understand that they are responsible for every round leaving their firearm. I take my CCW seriously and try to pay it forward with every interaction with a non or new gun owner.
[/QUOTE
Amen!

Chris.lorine

· #208 · 29 d ago

Easy Rhino said:
I've been around the block more than once. This is not the America I grew up in.

Prove me wrong.

During the past 28 months, the decay of what America used to be is beyond staggering. Virtually every aspect of our society has gotten worse in a big way, crime being one of them.

More and more law abiding people are choosing to become their own First Responders- that's not on a whim, either.

It's become a necessity.

Unfortunately, many people who own a firearm and choose to carry, are terrible shots. I see this every week on the range and, yes, I am at the range every week, both as an RSO and as a shooter who practices for self-defense. They don't invest the time to practice regularly after the initial purchase and familiarization range time. In fact, many with whom I have spoken, are mostly ignorant of the law with regard to the legal defense of themselves and their family when using a firearm.

I want anyone who wants to own a firearm to have one, so long as they are properly trained and maintain proficiency with it as well as having obtained knowledge of the law with regard to defense with a firearm. An eight hour CCW course (not the 4 hour quickie) is the minimal I would suggest.

Prove me wrong.

Chris.lorine

· #209 · 29 d ago (Edited)

hiketheball said:
Question: Where do you live?
I ask that because I sense a great different between a pro-2A from Michigan and one from, say, Tennessee. The Michigan person accepts more restricts because of what they are used to -- their state & locale's rules. A safe is not necessary for all people, places, and situations. A "secure place to store their firearms", in my area, is definitely an Anti-2a position. I recognize the difference between "safe storage" in a home with children, a home with adolescents, a home with only adults, and a home of 1 person, for example. Safes, storage rooms, etc. have presented issues in time of emergencies. One has the right to decide for one's self.
On the whole, you statements are politically charged in a direction that I don't like.

"More Freedom! Fewer Laws!"

Arizona. We are the most firearm-friendly state in the union. As to the politically charged comment. Hell no. I hate politics. I am only concerned with the safety of those who choose to own and have a firearm on their person. I want everyone to know how to properly use the firearm they own. I hope they have a safe place to keep their firearm at home. I do, I also have access to mine in time to protect myself if an intruder were to attempt to do something stupid. If you can't access and aim your firearm in under a minute at home, you are unarmed.
I am not looking for an argument. I am hoping that everyone chooses to educate themselves and practice more with the firearm they choose.

Reactions: 2

TXGRunner

· #210 · 29 d ago

Chris.lorine said:
My response was aimed at the thought that simply buying a firearm isn't a solution. There should be a complete mindset to ownership.
[snip]

I don't think many (if any) would disagree with this concept or what you wrote in support of advocating for a responsible mindset of ownership.

What myself, and apparently others, took exception to was your opening remark "This is not the Wild West" and your further comment "Personally, I would be scared more of an "armed citizen" who starts shooting in a public area to "defend" themselves and/or their family."

That sounds awfully close to the typical gun grabber trope, "You don't need a gun; you'd only be more of a danger to yourself with a gun." Yes, I've heard that before, including from a program manager sending people to Iraq in 2004, although he never visited his employees there.

As to the "wild west," I am not sure how, after 2020 and through to this very day, anyone can suggest we have a civil society:

odysee.com

Democrat mayors failed to maintain peace decades ago and are failing again in 2020

Democrat mayors are failing in their "most elemental and fundamental purpose" to maintain peace and order just as they did almost six decades ago. Same cities, same violence, same policies, and same ...

odysee.com

Maybe we were safer in "wild west".

Your comment about "safe storage" was in the context of the post with those other remarks, so I think we can be forgiven for seeing that as eerily reminiscent of talking points from those who want to disarm us. Most of us believe proper storage is very important; we just oppose unenforceable laws imposing it.

Many on this thread, myself included, also concurred with your point defenders need more training. The truth is the gun safety record in the US has improved dramatically from 1980 to today, even as millions now carry daily and many millions more now own firearms.

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TXGRunner

· #211 · 29 d ago

Chris.lorine said:
Arizona. We are the most firearm-friendly state in the union.
[snip]

In the interest of comity and gentlemanly discussion, I am just going to let this brazen and unprovoked attack on Texas go.

Reactions: 5

WOTYSGTB

· #212 · 29 d ago

EddienFL said:
As you play the odds, odds are you won't need more than three rounds...so why carry anything other than a revolver...loaded with three rounds...or even carry at all? That would eliminate the odds of accidently striking an innocent person.

We all gamble every day, I prefer to practice to make my odds better than yours. Your reference to odds does not pertain to me and the odds I choose to play.

WOTYSGTB

· #213 · 29 d ago

TimeTheAvenger said:
VERY respectfully speaking to a USAF veteran, I differ with you on the back up magazine. I am a 5'4 103 lb. civilian, not a Rambo, but I carry a spare in the event of a double-feed malfunction in which I would have to strip the mag. Without a spare, I'm holding a pistol I can throw at an assailant, but it is otherwise useless.

It's a free country and I would never expect anyone, including yourself to do as I do. I do what I am comfortable with commensurate with my ability and training. I have been carrying for 36 years and have yet to pull my weapon thankfully.

Reactions: 3

Chris.lorine

· #214 · 28 d ago

TXGRunner said:
In the interest of comity and gentlemanly discussion, I am just going to let this brazen and unprovoked attack on Texas go.

Sorry, the stats are the stats! AZ is the most gun-friendly state in the union. We love our guns here.

The funny/interesting thing, at the range where I am and RSO, we get many, and I mean MANY, visitors from England, Germany, Canada, Japan... etc. who are vacationing here in Scottsdale. They bring their families in to shoot for the first time. I like to spend time with them to show them how much fun shooting is and how it can be a family sport. Almost all of them like to rent an AR, a lever rifle, a shotgun, and a revolver in addition to a semi-auto pistol. Some even go for the full "fully auto" experience and shoot machine guns (this is done under strict supervision). It is really entertaining to see the smiles and the looks of pure joy on their faces.

Reactions: 1

Chris.lorine

· #215 · 28 d ago

TXGRunner said:
Exactly.

What does "safe storage" have to do with mag capacity limits?

How does the way somebody else stores their weapons at their home raise concern have their drawing a pistol to stop a threat?

BTW, I am not a believer in mag capacity limits. I never wrote that. I actually proved to some lesser informed individuals, recently, that I can drop and change a magazine so fast that my rate of fire was almost like I had not changed mags. It is a stupid suggestion to limit a mag to 10.

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organ

· #216 · 28 d ago

I do not leave the house without being fully armed!

Clothing Musical instrument Hat Musician Guitar accessory

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tvanorden

· #217 · 28 d ago

Chris.lorine said:
Sorry, the stats are the stats! AZ is the most gun-friendly state in the union. We love our guns here.

The funny/interesting thing, at the range where I am and RSO, we get many, and I mean MANY, visitors from England, Germany, Canada, Japan... etc. who are vacationing here in Scottsdale. They bring their families in to shoot for the first time. I like to spend time with them to show them how much fun shooting is and how it can be a family sport. Almost all of them like to rent an AR, a lever rifle, a shotgun, and a revolver in addition to a semi-auto pistol. Some even go for the full "fully auto" experience and shoot machine guns (this is done under strict supervision). It is really entertaining to see the smiles and the looks of pure joy on their faces.

Ben Avery???SGC???

TXGRunner

· #218 · 28 d ago

Chris.lorine said:
Sorry, the stats are the stats!
[snip]

In 2017, Arizona was 10th in number of suppressors, behind smaller population states like Utah, Louisiana, and South Carolina. Texas had the most suppressors, even per capita.

In 2021, Texas had 529,150 suppressors to Arizona's 85,353, or 17.9 per 1000 residents to 11.7 per 1000 residents. I concede Arizona was slightly ahead, per capita, in machine guns, SBRs, and SBSs, but overall, they are almost dead even. However, if we remove all the NFA items owned by Californians, but stored in Arizona under LLCs to protect them from their tyrannical government, then Texas wins running away.

FWIW, Florida is the only other state to have over 500K NFA items (518,725). Texas has 1,006,555 NFA items while Arizona has 258,691.

24/7/365

· #219 · 28 d ago

www.gunsandammo.com

The Best States for Gun Owners: Ranked for 2022 - Guns and Ammo

We've ranked every state in the Union, from worst to best. Where does your state land? Full rankings chart at the end of the list.

www.gunsandammo.com

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ltcnav

· #220 · 27 d ago

As the flyers say, "nothing more worthless than the runway behind you or the sky above you."

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