Try pulling the safety then installing the hammer. Reinstall the safety with the hammer locked down
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Help with MCX Safety Selector/ Hammer
Hoping to get a little help here. Long story short I reinstalled my Duo Match Trigger. Trigger went in fine, no issues. Install of radian talon, no issues- until I fully install the hammer. Without the hammer installed the safety operates as it should, clicks into place in 45 and 90 degrees. Once I installed the hammer it seems the pressure of the hammer is forcing the back end of the trigger to slightly rise and it touches the bottom of the safety selector and does not allow if to turn fully and activate. If I back out the hammer pin halfway the safety will click into place fine. I stripped off the pistol grip to make sure the screw was not touching and removed the safety completely and when I look in the hole where the safety goes you can see the trigger is just barely visible through the hole. I am guessing I am just missing something and not looking to pay the gunsmith if I don't have to. One other note it functioned fine previous, just I was thinking of swapping triggers then changed my mind. Any help is appreciated
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Welcome to Sig Talk! Yeah, trigger group installs are sometimes a trial. Your issue may be misplaced legs!! Make sure those 2 hammer spring legs are ON TOP of the trigger pin and not under that pin. My apologies to your thumb, if you have to re-install the hammer. Perhaps holding a cold can of your fav beverage will help numb the pain a little..
Cheers
Cheers
Thanks for both replies. I have tried every combo of installing that I can think of. I am going to try calling Sig this morning and see what they say. The legs are on top of the trigger pin and oriented the proper way. Also doubled checked the following-
Correct pins with the trigger and hammer. No obstructions in the lower. My pistol grip bolt is plenty short and not pushing into the lower.
Like I said before everything functioned before I messed with it, and everything looks good until I install the hammer. It just seems like the pressure of the hammer is pushing the back end of the trigger ( closest to the stock) up a tiny hair and is hitting the bottom of the safety selector when it rotates. I searched everywhere and cannot find anyone having this issue except one comment on a AR video on youtube. If I don't get direction from Sig I am going to start fresh tonight. Strip everything off. Install trigger first, then hammer, lock it down, then safety if the hole for the safety is not obstructed by the back piece of the trigger.
And yes both thumbs and index fingers are smoked. I have a pistol class on Saturday, should be interesting. I am never going to swap or remove the trigger again
Thanks again for the responses and if anyone else has any thoughts it is greatly appreciated.
Correct pins with the trigger and hammer. No obstructions in the lower. My pistol grip bolt is plenty short and not pushing into the lower.
Like I said before everything functioned before I messed with it, and everything looks good until I install the hammer. It just seems like the pressure of the hammer is pushing the back end of the trigger ( closest to the stock) up a tiny hair and is hitting the bottom of the safety selector when it rotates. I searched everywhere and cannot find anyone having this issue except one comment on a AR video on youtube. If I don't get direction from Sig I am going to start fresh tonight. Strip everything off. Install trigger first, then hammer, lock it down, then safety if the hole for the safety is not obstructed by the back piece of the trigger.
And yes both thumbs and index fingers are smoked. I have a pistol class on Saturday, should be interesting. I am never going to swap or remove the trigger again
Thanks again for the responses and if anyone else has any thoughts it is greatly appreciated.
Welcome to the forum!
I've installed many triggers and reinstalled SIG safety selectors in MCXs and your situation is unique in my experience. The MCX may not like your Radian Talon safety selector, i.e., it may not be a good fit.
In the Virtus class of MCXs, SIG used what might be described as an accu-wedge that keeps tension between the upper and lower. The wedge is black rubber and is easier to see when the rear take down pin is pushed out. It may be in the way or be holding debris in the way of the safety. Observe the operation of the safety and trigger with the upper separated. Catch the hammer as it falls to avoid damage to the lower. The wedge can be manually removed with a needle nose pliars. It can be re-contoured with a sharp knife and reinserted.
When the grip on the MCX is off, both the safety detent with spring and rear take down pin detent with spring are loose. Is everything in place?
Bill
I've installed many triggers and reinstalled SIG safety selectors in MCXs and your situation is unique in my experience. The MCX may not like your Radian Talon safety selector, i.e., it may not be a good fit.
In the Virtus class of MCXs, SIG used what might be described as an accu-wedge that keeps tension between the upper and lower. The wedge is black rubber and is easier to see when the rear take down pin is pushed out. It may be in the way or be holding debris in the way of the safety. Observe the operation of the safety and trigger with the upper separated. Catch the hammer as it falls to avoid damage to the lower. The wedge can be manually removed with a needle nose pliars. It can be re-contoured with a sharp knife and reinserted.
When the grip on the MCX is off, both the safety detent with spring and rear take down pin detent with spring are loose. Is everything in place?
Bill
Thanks for the reply. To answer a couple of your questions-Welcome to the forum!
I've installed many triggers and reinstalled SIG safety selectors in MCXs and your situation is unique in my experience. The MCX may not like your Radian Talon safety selector, i.e., it may not be a good fit.
In the Virtus class of MCXs, SIG used what might be described as an accu-wedge that keeps tension between the upper and lower. The wedge is black rubber and is easier to see when the rear take down pin is pushed out. It may be in the way or be holding debris in the way of the safety. Observe the operation of the safety and trigger with the upper separated. Catch the hammer as it falls to avoid damage to the lower. The wedge can be manually removed with a needle nose pliars. It can be re-contoured with a sharp knife and reinserted.
When the grip on the MCX is off, both the safety detent with spring and rear take down pin detent with spring are loose. Is everything in place?
Bill
The rifle operated fine for months with the radian installed. I put about 400 rounds thru it last weekend with no issue at all. Total of maybe 800-1000 rounds since the radian was installed
This has all been done with the upper and lower separated.
When the grip is fully removed and there is no safety in I can see a small sliver of the trigger through the safety selector hole at the bottom. This is the part that is catching. The only thing I can possibly think of from an above post is maybe I left the hammer up when I went to install the safety ? Initially I did not even remove the safety when removing the trigger and hammer because it was not in the way. After I installed and checked function I started over removing everything. I have probably installed/ reinstalled 4 or 5 times now
I have a call in with Sig. I will check the " accu wedge" when I get home tonight
The debris theory seems more likely given the number of rounds fired. Some non-chlorinated brake cleaner (less expensive than gun scrubber) from a car parts store may dissolve and blow out any crud. (A black Virtus (I have one) would be fine but test your finish first if gray or FDE.) The fire control group would need to be oiled again. Also, springs have been known to have issues so look at the disconector spring to make sure it's in place properly. Also keep an eye out for detents and stray springs.
Bill
PS: SIG sells the wedge- Parts Map
Bill
PS: SIG sells the wedge- Parts Map
You had the Talon in before?
Disregard. Caught up on the posts.
Just asking because I had a talon that wouldn't work with a specific trigger.
Disregard. Caught up on the posts.
Just asking because I had a talon that wouldn't work with a specific trigger.
Now that I know what it looks like I will check it out and report back-https://www.sigsauer.com/sig-sauer-small-parts-shoppers/mcx-parts-picker?location=Wedge
Correct. 2 different Radians, 1 Ambi and 1 single side. Both ran with no issuesYou had the Talon in before?
Ok, also make sure the trigger spring's legs are pointing forward. It's not unusual for this spring to slip off before install, an if the spring is flipped and installed with legs pointing rearward the rear of the trigger assembly will be lifted and the safety interferes with trigger function.Thanks for both replies. I have tried every combo of installing that I can think of. I am going to try calling Sig this morning and see what they say. The legs are on top of the trigger pin and oriented the proper way. Also doubled checked the following-
Correct pins with the trigger and hammer. No obstructions in the lower. My pistol grip bolt is plenty short and not pushing into the lower.
Like I said before everything functioned before I messed with it, and everything looks good until I install the hammer. It just seems like the pressure of the hammer is pushing the back end of the trigger ( closest to the stock) up a tiny hair and is hitting the bottom of the safety selector when it rotates. I searched everywhere and cannot find anyone having this issue except one comment on a AR video on youtube. If I don't get direction from Sig I am going to start fresh tonight. Strip everything off. Install trigger first, then hammer, lock it down, then safety if the hole for the safety is not obstructed by the back piece of the trigger.
And yes both thumbs and index fingers are smoked. I have a pistol class on Saturday, should be interesting. I am never going to swap or remove the trigger again
Thanks again for the responses and if anyone else has any thoughts it is greatly appreciated.
Enjoy your pistol class!!
Cheers
Just an update- Everything looks clean. I tried to start from scratch and the same issue. I took some pictures. Top pic shows what it looks like with the trigger and hammer installed. Second shows the inside when attempting to install the safety. Third shows where on the trigger it is hitting. Any thoughts anyone?
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SIG MCX safeties don't use a positioning ring on the left side looking forward. The SIG M400 and 516 have such a positioning ring. I forgot that on a 516 lower that I built using an MCX parts kit on a stripped AR lower. The lack of the positioning ring caused minor cosmetic damage on the outside of the receiver on the left side looking forward. Use of such a positioning ring on an MCX might cause the damage that I see by mispositioning the safety.
The simple solution is to reinstall the SIG safety designed for the MCX. I hope you have a good roll pin punch set, starter punch and pin. Start the rolll pin on the right side from the bottom so as not to ding the lip on top of the lower. I predict your problem will disappear after the SIG safety is reinstalled. Alternatively if there is a positioning ring, just don't use it and see how she functions. But the safe thing to do is to reinstall the SIG safety.
Picture of SIG safety with positioning ring NOT used on the MCX: www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/amb-safe-516-716-m400
Bill
The simple solution is to reinstall the SIG safety designed for the MCX. I hope you have a good roll pin punch set, starter punch and pin. Start the rolll pin on the right side from the bottom so as not to ding the lip on top of the lower. I predict your problem will disappear after the SIG safety is reinstalled. Alternatively if there is a positioning ring, just don't use it and see how she functions. But the safe thing to do is to reinstall the SIG safety.
Picture of SIG safety with positioning ring NOT used on the MCX: www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/amb-safe-516-716-m400
Bill
Bill,SIG MCX safeties don't use a positioning ring on the left side looking forward. The SIG M400 and 516 have such a positioning ring. I forgot that on a 516 lower that I built using an MCX parts kit on a stripped AR lower. The lack of the positioning ring caused minor cosmetic damage on the outside of the receiver on the left side looking forward. Use of such a positioning ring on an MCX might cause the damage that I see by mispositioning the safety.
The simple solution is to reinstall the SIG safety designed for the MCX. I hope you have a good roll pin punch set, starter punch and pin. Start the rolll pin on the right side from the bottom so as not to ding the lip on top of the lower. I predict your problem will disappear after the SIG safety is reinstalled. Alternatively if there is a positioning ring, just don't use it and see how she functions. But the safe thing to do is to reinstall the SIG safety.
Picture of SIG safety with positioning ring NOT used on the MCX: www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/amb-safe-516-716-m400
Bill
I appreciate all your responses.
Wouldn't the back end of the trigger that is rising up impede the original safety to be installed also? I just tried to dry fit it and it hits the same spot as the second pic.
I actually had Sig themselves install the radian talon. They sell it at their pro shop in NH and from time to time they offer a Saturday with free install when you buy parts. The only reason I had them do it was my lack of tools, vice, etc. I am going to take it to my local gunsmith after work on Friday and see what he thinks. At this point I am hoping he can figure out something. I really don't like the ambi safety and really like the 45 degree. Just puzzling to me how it worked for months and then I screwed around with it and can't get it back working. Lesson learned I guessed. Hopefully its not that expensive. Hell if buying a new trigger would solve the problem I would do that for $150 and be done with it
Yeah, there's obviously some safety bar contact with the trigger assembly - and that ain't good! Am sure you cleaned the receiver before installing the trigger, and there's no debris under the trigger. Can we see a pic looking straight down on the installed & uncock trigger group with the hammer up. Include the front of the hammer to the back of the receiver with light down to the receiver's base.
Here's my Virtus' installed trigger set. It's a Geissele SSA, so has a bridge and slightly different shape.
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Here's my Virtus' installed trigger set. It's a Geissele SSA, so has a bridge and slightly different shape.
This is a picture of a SIG 516 build with an MCX safety instead of the discontinued M400/516 parts kit. It functions perfectly, but the correct safety would have prevented the tiny amount of cosmetic damage with use of the spacer ring in the 516 kit. (I use the left over bumper in the MCX kit as a spare for my 5 MCXs.)
The cosmetic damage is the silver quarter circle at the tip of the safety.
Bill
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PS Alternative theory- Your safety is both 45 and 90 degree capable. Did you switch from one to the other? B
The cosmetic damage is the silver quarter circle at the tip of the safety.
Bill
PS Alternative theory- Your safety is both 45 and 90 degree capable. Did you switch from one to the other? B
I did try both ways. The main issue is I cannot get any safety into the hole after I install the hammer. I personally do not think it will matter which safety is in there. I started with the factory, then ran a radian ambi, then a radian single sided. All 3 operated with no issues, Something is going on with the trigger and hammer install. I am not sure if I am doing something wrong but everything looks ok to me. I just don't know.This is a picture of a SIG 516 build with an MCX safety instead of the discontinued M400/516 parts kit. It functions perfectly, but the correct safety would have prevented the tiny amount of cosmetic damage with use of the spacer ring in the 516 kit. (I use the left over bumper in the MCX kit as a spare for my 5 MCXs.)
The cosmetic damage is the silver quarter circle at the tip of the safety.
Bill View attachment 460160
PS Alternative theory- Your safety is both 45 and 90 degree capable. Did you switch from one to the other? B
Before you start you can compare the SIG safety with the Radian to get an idea of the differences in the two parts. How do they line up together?
To assemble, push the back of the trigger down as the SIG safety goes through. Hold the safety in place with scotch tape; install the hammer and its pin using the disconnector to help hold the hammer in place as you line up the hammer with hole and pin. I use a rubber tipped hammer to drive the hammer pin. Then you can verify the SIG safety with grip and springs in place rotates free and clear of the trigger when cocked. Then and only then install the right side safety and pin to hold it in place. Go from the bottom up. I've done this too many times. It's all designed to fit together.
Bill
To assemble, push the back of the trigger down as the SIG safety goes through. Hold the safety in place with scotch tape; install the hammer and its pin using the disconnector to help hold the hammer in place as you line up the hammer with hole and pin. I use a rubber tipped hammer to drive the hammer pin. Then you can verify the SIG safety with grip and springs in place rotates free and clear of the trigger when cocked. Then and only then install the right side safety and pin to hold it in place. Go from the bottom up. I've done this too many times. It's all designed to fit together.
Bill
Thanks for the pic. Is the safety installed, but out of the frame? The pics’ angle not sure if the safety’s installed.
Here's a SIG Match Duo trigger I ran for 'bout 1k rounds. As you can see, there's no finish marring on the assembly's rear extension. SIG had some heat treatment issues with initial batches of these triggers, which resulted in accelerated wear on the face of the hammers. SIG sent me couple new trigger sets, so no problem with their customer service. But I switched to the far more robust Geissele's SSA on 2018.
Cheers
The Radian Talon uses aluminum levers with a steel shaft. I suspect that your aluminum levers that are spring loaded to stay in place are worn or the springs allow movement in the steel shaft of your safety. The two levers are detachable to change the throw angle.
Seekins and SIG use all steel safeties. SIG is pinned in place and the Seekins uses a screw to hold it in place in addition to the detent with spring. The Seekins that I have not used has a 45 degree throw.available. (I use all SIG safeties on my SIGs just to keep controls the same as much as possible.) The Seekins has a 0.34 in gap to allow the safety to move. KC45's trigger is that wide, but the Geissele has part of the trigger's rear dished out a bit to allow movement of the safety. I don't know the gap on the SIG safety as they are all installed.
Bill
Seekins and SIG use all steel safeties. SIG is pinned in place and the Seekins uses a screw to hold it in place in addition to the detent with spring. The Seekins that I have not used has a 45 degree throw.available. (I use all SIG safeties on my SIGs just to keep controls the same as much as possible.) The Seekins has a 0.34 in gap to allow the safety to move. KC45's trigger is that wide, but the Geissele has part of the trigger's rear dished out a bit to allow movement of the safety. I don't know the gap on the SIG safety as they are all installed.
Bill
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