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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

My barrel lug is digging into the guide rod.
However, in my case the TDL settles essentially parallel to the slide rails so it looks correct.

I think I can feel it as I manually ease it into battery the last 1/8", but I don't have another P226 to compare it to.

This is happening on a stock P226 purchased five years ago that has about 300 rounds on it, which has been to Sig for an action job and short reset trigger. The guide rod is the stock hollow one.

It's good to know that this isn't supposed to happen and that there might be a solution. I'd like to have Sig fix it but shipping and everything would take a bite---worse because the problem shouldn't have been there in the first place.

I'm not quite sure how to proceed and wonder if anyone has a suggestion. Many of the pics in this thread are gone and plus I don't know if the precise solution was ever discovered.

Thank you.
 

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JayHe, when the pistol is assembled, does the takedown lever sit level/parallel to the slide like this:
Blue Air gun Trigger Bumper Gun barrel


OR, is it slanted like this:
Hood Vehicle Bumper Personal luxury car Gadget



EDIT:
Sorry JayHe, I just re-read your post and realized that you answered my question already. Lever/parallel to the slide.

Did this rubbing condition appear recently or has it been there from the beginning?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hello ThnkFrst,

It's been there from the beginning.

There are two places on the barrel lugs that show wear. I thought my guide rod end was wearing but the silver I saw on it must have come from the barrel because, after cleaning, the guide rod doesn't show damage. Weird.

I'll post some pics when I'm able, tonight I think. Please make allowances for me to be all wrong! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Here's the guide rod end that I've seen silvery metal on before, but not now. I'm going to the range tomorrow and we'll see what happens, but right now it looks OK:
Musical instrument Automotive tire Wood Gas Engineering


So the guide rod end isn't gouged, but it does appear to be causing wear on the bottom of the barrel, is that normal? Because the last 1/16" moving into battery feels crunchy.
Rectangle Automotive wheel system Electric blue Auto part Composite material


The TDL is more or less horizontal in operation, so I won't post those pics yet, but here is the angle in takedown position with the slide locked back---shouldn't it be 90 degrees?
Photograph White Air gun Black Trigger
 

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Barrel steel (chrome moly) is certainly tough stuff, high yield strength. But that's not the same as "hardness". The guide rod is likely harder than the barrel and brings that nice sharp edge of the flange to bear on the barrel lug area.

The question is why does it do that? Pics might help. How does the recoil spring look - close up? Colored end of the spring mounted to the rear of the rod? Do you own any other p-series SIGs?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The recoil spring is mounted correctly. My only other P series is a P320 X Five Legion. That barrel has one ding on it from operation but the barrel is quite a bit different.
I'll take another pic when I get access to a better camera tonight...but honestly I don't think it's possible to troubleshoot the problem without the gun in motion because the guide rod is sitting exactly where it's supposed to.
 

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You may try and pull the Takedown Lever out, and check the detents. If they are cut correctly, then you may consider the Slide Catch Lever Spring. Besides supplying tension to the Slide Catch Lever, it is supposed to hold the Takedown Lever in place by the detents, if it's deformed, to where it can't hold it in position. If the Takedown Lever is able to rotate while the pistol is cycling, it could possibly cause the marks you show.

With the Takedown Lever in it's operating position, the flange of the Guide rod is to rest against the flat of the Takedown Lever. If the lever rotates any the flange could make contact with the barrel, and it's lugs. Otherwise the Takedown Lever prevents that, and the Locking Insert actually prevents the Guide Rod movement, horizontally or vertically.
 
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If the Takedown Lever is able to rotate while the pistol is cycling, it could possibly cause the marks you show.
Speaking from personal experience, the take down lever can feel like a convenient and comfortable place to rest the support hand thumb when shooting. Care should probably be taken though not to push it up or down during recoil.
 

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Speaking from personal experience, the take down lever can feel like a convenient and comfortable place to rest the support hand thumb when shooting. Care should probably be taken though not to push it up or down during recoil.
I never had thought of that, but since I see all of these "Gas Pedals" offered, I never thought of the repercussions. Yes, ThnkFrst is right, shooting with downward pressure on the Takedown Lever from the off hand thumb, could produce the same results.
 
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You may try and pull the Takedown Lever out, and check the detents. If they are cut correctly, then you may consider the Slide Catch Lever Spring. Besides supplying tension to the Slide Catch Lever, it is supposed to hold the Takedown Lever in place by the detents, if it's deformed, to where it can't hold it in position. If the Takedown Lever is able to rotate while the pistol is cycling, it could possibly cause the marks you show.

With the Takedown Lever in it's operating position, the flange of the Guide rod is to rest against the flat of the Takedown Lever. If the lever rotates any the flange could make contact with the barrel, and it's lugs. Otherwise the Takedown Lever prevents that, and the Locking Insert actually prevents the Guide Rod movement, horizontally or vertically.
The deformed, or even weak, slide catch lever spring theory is interesting. The damage on the area where the rod rests, looks like chatter scratches caused by the guide rod flange slightly moving during recoil. BUT, the rounded edge damage where the recoil spring is hitting the barrel during full compression, could also cause the guide rod flange to slightly lose contact during recoil. That could explain the odd feel at the last 1/8”. The OP pics, show the flange scratches are slightly raised on the lug, which indicates that the spring hitting that other area is moving the guide rod down on the takedown lever. There should be corresponding wear on the flat of the TDL.
 

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I never had thought of that, but since I see all of these "Gas Pedals" offered, I never thought of the repercussions. Yes, ThnkFrst is right, shooting with downward pressure on the Takedown Lever from the off hand thumb, could produce the same results.
‘I’ve never tried a gas pedal, for that exact reason.
 

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trying to follow along just to add to my knowledge base. Question .. When I recieved my 229 the braided spring was so tight on the guide rod that in the very first range trip the foward tip of the spring was damaged and needed replacement. The original would not move smoothly or easily on the rod. Could that cause the issue? I would think if the spring pressure was not consistent ..??
 

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trying to follow along just to add to my knowledge base. Question .. When I recieved my 229 the braided spring was so tight on the guide rod that in the very first range trip the foward tip of the spring was damaged and needed replacement. The original would not move smoothly or easily on the rod. Could that cause the issue? I would think if the spring pressure was not consistent ..??
If the slide did not cycle smoothly, that could be caused by the spring too tight on the slide. That's why Sig and their "braided" springs had the tight "end" against the flange, so the rest of the spring would move smoothly over the guide rod. In this case the Takedown lever appears to be rotating enough to cam the flange higher, making contact with the barrel. The reason for this is yet to be determined.

In most cases the friction caused by the spring moving tightly over the rod causes deformation of the spring itself. The OP in this case, has not shown any signs of this happening. We can only go from what is presented to us. That's why we always ask for photos, as people have different ways to describe what they see, and the terminology they use.
 
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The deformed, or even weak, slide catch lever spring theory is interesting. The damage on the area where the rod rests, looks like chatter scratches caused by the guide rod flange slightly moving during recoil. BUT, the rounded edge damage where the recoil spring is hitting the barrel during full compression, could also cause the guide rod flange to slightly lose contact during recoil. That could explain the odd feel at the last 1/8”. The OP pics, show the flange scratches are slightly raised on the lug, which indicates that the spring hitting that other area is moving the guide rod down on the takedown lever. There should be corresponding wear on the flat of the TDL.
You're correct, I believe, to a point. The Barrel is at it's lowest point when the slide is in full recoil. Here is where either the Slide Catch Lever Spring is allowing the Takedown Lever to rotate, or the OP is unknowingly rotating the Takedown Lever enough to allow the compressed Recoil Spring/Recoil Spring Guide flange to raise enough to make contact with the bottom of the barrel. The "chatter" marks are due to the thin edge of the flange itself "skipping" along the bottom of the Barrel. The flat of the Takedown Lever may not show much wear, as neither does the rear face of the flange itself, only the edges do.
 
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You're correct, I believe, to a point. The Barrel is at it's lowest point when the slide is in full recoil. Here is where either the Slide Catch Lever Spring is allowing the Takedown Lever to rotate, or the OP is unknowingly rotating the Takedown Lever enough to allow the compressed Recoil Spring/Recoil Spring Guide flange to raise enough to make contact with the bottom of the barrel. The "chatter" marks are due to the thin edge of the flange itself "skipping" along the bottom of the Barrel. The flat of the Takedown Lever may not show much wear, as neither does the rear face of the flange itself, only the edges do.
The rounded/damaged area forward of the ledge has to be from the recoil spring. Nothing else is in that area to hit it. The OP said he “thinks” he can feel it hitting, when manually cycling. That can’t be from the OP pushing on the lever, because that support thumb isn’t there. It is on the rear of the slide, gripping the serrations. It could be either spring, or both. I looked at a couple examples just now, and I can see a very small faint spot where the spring touches that edge, but nothing like what the OP has.

I would like to see the OP change guide rod springs, and put a little paint or something on the area before a range trip.
 

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The rounded/damaged area forward of the ledge has to be from the recoil spring. Nothing else is in that area to hit it. The OP said he “thinks” he can feel it hitting, when manually cycling. That can’t be from the OP pushing on the lever, because that support thumb isn’t there. It is on the rear of the slide, gripping the serrations. It could be either spring, or both. I looked at a couple examples just now, and I can see a very small faint spot where the spring touches that edge, but nothing like what the OP has.

I would like to see the OP change guide rod springs, and put a little paint or something on the area before a range trip.
Unless it's the tag end of the spring, where there is a busted strand extending out past the rest, the spring should not extend past the flange which goes not further than the flat face of the Takedown Lever, which stops about here... shown outlined in green... preventing the flange from going any further rearward. If it was to "rotate" the flat would attempt to go horizontal, facing the barrel, which could raise the rop of the flange, toward the Barrel.

The area outlined in red, is likely caused by assembly of the Recoil Spring Guide and Recoil Spring into the slide assembly, as once assembled in the pistol, this area protected from the Recoil Spring Guide and Spring by the Takedown Lever.
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Unless it's the tag end of the spring, where there is a busted strand extending out past the rest, the spring should not extend past the flange which goes not further than the flat face of the Takedown Lever, which stops about here... shown outlined in green... preventing the flange from going any further rearward. If it was to "rotate" the flat would attempt to go horizontal, facing the barrel, which could raise the rop of the flange, toward the Barrel.

The area outlined in red, is likely caused by assembly of the Recoil Spring Guide and Recoil Spring into the slide assembly, as once assembled in the pistol, this area protected from the Recoil Spring Guide and Spring by the Takedown Lever.
View attachment 420270
The area in green is where I have a tiny slight wear mark on several examples of mine. If the OPs recoil spring bulged out upon compression, the second or third coil would line up with that area. Not being able to see the spring in full compression while located inside the frame, I would have no way to determine if the spring diameter could grow that much. As long as the OP stands by his comment that he can feel it, the last 1/8”, I’m still going to suggest changing the recoil spring.

I would also like to see the catch lever spring laid on top of a new one.
 

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I think a takedown lever like the one above along with a fitted slide stop spring will fix OPs trouble. That is a P228 Takedown lever.
The slide stop spring must fit the cuts in the TDL.
A new recoil spring and stainless "fat" guide rod would not hurt, from GG or Top Gun Supply.
Those new TDLs don't seem to be very good.

This old post has most of the talking in it along with a link to Peppercorn.
P226 Scorpion - Slide won't slide off
I believe the Takedown lever was left pointing down and fired to cause that damage.
Peppercorns damage was caused by the barrel trying to unload out of the slide every time it was fired. (which
means the flat of the takedown lever was not vertical when fired) I have some P228 Takedown levers but not many SS springs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Wow, thanks to everybody for the great comments!
My guns were all cleaned and lubed yesterday, I got to the range, and had left all my magazines at home! lol So no testing got done.

I have touched up the wear marks on my barrel with a Sharpie, and hand cycling hasn't affected the marks, so I'm very curious to see what happens in live fire. I might have to take a special trip to find out. Best case the marks stay in place and this wear isn't happening any more.

Thumb-riding the TDL is certainly a danger I think, but I shoot left handed so that's out (and no fancy brake pedal for me!).

Taking good pictures isn't easy, but I will try and if anyone has a request for a picture of a part at a particular angle please let me know.

Shouldn't the TDL be at 90 degrees? (It's not on mine)

PS And thanks to the mod/admin for moving this topic. :)
 

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More important for the lever to be horizontal when in battery. Mine are not perfect when turned down
and sometime I have to move the lever so it won't stop the slide. My Kodak won't focus anymore. (or I may be moving handheld - this is my old floor of the pickup gun)
 
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