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Grayguns Adjustable Straight Trigger System - for competition/range only?

8K views 20 replies 13 participants last post by  PA P365 
#1 ·
What makes the Grayguns Adjustable Straight Trigger System for competition/range only? I fully understand that a light trigger pull weight is not desirable for a defense/duty handgun, but in the Grayguns description, it specifically discusses the custom polished sear as the part that is "specifically designed for competition or range use only."

If one were to use the OEM sear springs and trigger return spring to maintain a higher trigger pull weight, but still use the Grayguns custom sear, safety lever pin, and adjustable trigger, would that be more acceptable for a home defense handgun? Thoughts?
 
#2 ·
What is reality, and what may be portrayed in court, is the problem. When a shooting occurs, the firearm most likely will be disassembled, and modifications are noted. A shady DA can have a field day in court, worse yet with their hand picked anti-gun jury. When adrenaline is pumping, a firearm with a light trigger has a greater chance of being fired prematurely, or accidentally. Knowing this, as the trigger be labeled as competition only, may open a can of worms for yourself. That's something I would not wish to open myself up to. Pre meditation, has been used in the past, with modified firearms, whether fact, or fiction. Carry guns in my past, had all factory parts, for this reason. Of course, this is just my opinion, your results may vary.
 
#3 ·
I’m pretty sure the grey guns kit put the pull weight around 2.5. That’s scary light outside of comp shooting where it matters for speed and precision. Not sure if you’d really want that light of a trigger for every day carry. The apex kit comes in around 4ish from what research I’ve done. According to their site it doesn’t change the pull on x models thou. So depending on what u have it’s possible the apex would be more suited for every day carry. They sell just the shoe that helps with far less creep and take up, and the forward assist bar and the shoe combo for next to zero creep and a clean crisp break with a extremely short reset. Seems like the apex combo is most people’s choice for the “upgrade” over factory they are wanting without the fear of it being too light. Just my 2 cent observation.
 
#4 ·
That is purely speculation on your part. You don’t like light triggers. What makes you think that others will find that to be the case??? I never understood that. I like triggers at 2.5 Lbs. Does that mean you are wrong for liking 7lb triggers??? No it doesn’t. Your statement has no validity.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Thanks for people's responses so far. But aside from the legal aspect, my question is around what makes a trigger for competition only versus duty based. Is trigger pull weight the only criteria? I've read that the "magic" threshold for duty/defense use is 4 pounds. I do have the Apex bar and trigger on another P320, but I do prefer the overall feel of the Grayguns trigger system. I can probably get the Grayguns trigger pull closer to 4 pounds with some spring changes (mine is currently just under 3 pounds with the intermediate springs), but wondering if there are other aspects to consider?
 
#8 ·
This is a legal CYA. You can use your pistol with whatever parts you want any way you damn well please. They are just making that statement so that if you carry a pistol with their trigger installed and God forbid you have to use it to protect yourself, a defense lawyer cannot say "my client didn't mean to fire his weapon, it was Grey Guns' trigger being too light that caused the pistol to fire unintentionally."
 
#9 ·
All those who have researched this say there isn't a modification done by a competent gunsmith that has ever been a factor in a self defense case.
YouTube certified home jobs are an entirely different story.
Only having talked to a few competitive shooters, they all say they don't and would never put a 2lb trigger on their defensive gun.
 
#10 ·
I put greyguns triggers in all of my sigs. I don’t have this trigger for this IDPA match and that trigger for carry. I want close to the same trigger for all of them. It could be the difference in a real shoot. This is my opinion. Others may like a heavier triggers for carry and a light one for something else. Nothing scary about a little ol 3lb trigger pull. Practice practice practice. Try to master the pull.
 
#11 ·
yeah, likely a mfg CYA for liability thing.

I may upgrade to flat triggers on both my M17 and M18 before I'm done. But I recognize the reality of a heavier trigger pull in the heat of the moment. Many years (25 yrs ago) when I wasn't trained and found myself hanging nose to nose at 1am with an intruder. My only gun that night was Dad's old winchester leverl 30.30
the guy was not complying as I yelled at him to put his hands up, etc. Adrenalin had kicked in and my entire body was shaking. I could not tell you how much pressure I was putting on that trigger. my brain wasn't focused on that at all. But my finger was on the trigger and I'll credit a pretty stout trigger weight to that guy not getting shot that night.
Some of the trigger jobs I've got on my long range rifles these days...yeah...it woulda been a bad night.
 
#12 ·
I’m leaving my M11-A1 and P225 alone. Both have factory SRT and SA is light and quick, but DA is fairly stout. I’m standing on the idea these are standard handguns, as-built by Sig, not modified.

I have the GrayGuns SRT kit and curved adjustable trigger for my 226, but that isn’t a defense gun (for me). Even in the case I used that handgun in a confrontation, the work will be done by a Sig Master Dealer’s Armorer.

Real issue or internet BS doesn’t matter.
 
#17 ·
Anyone here aware of, "Vicarious Liability"? Manufacturers cover their liability when someone decides to use their product where the "implied" acceptable standard for a HD weapon is undercut or reduced. The concept of "Deep Pockets" applies not only to the user, but the manufacturer as well.

That said, would I reduce my trigger pull on any weapon to less than the industry standard whether implied, inferred or accepted? I wouldn't recommend it. As someone mentioned, in a real life shooting you will never even notice the trigger weight, even if 10#, nor the sights. Been there done that.

Myself, I try to keep my weapons as close to what my duty weapon was or close. The GG adjustable reduces the take-up. The Apex bar smooths the action further and reduces the perceived trigger weight. Albeit I did notice a 1-2# drop in trigger weight on a new P320. I have installed the Apex trigger with the Apex bar where there wasn't any take-up. I was not comfortable with that as I have stated on this forum a "little" travel is a good thing. Why? a microsecond to think about my actions and the subsequent repercussions.

Unlike a DA/SA weapon where one meets noticeable resistance once at the wall and the hammer moving rearward, also noticeable. The striker fired weapon does not have that countercheck if you will to your actions. There's a wall, but a very small wall. I handed my old partner my GG Apex P320 recently. We both used and trained on the P226 for years. He had never handled a striker before. When he pulled the trigger on the P320 he was surprised while stating, "it's to light, Is that even safe?" I then handed him a non-modified P320 with the same reaction. Anecdotal yes, but only you can decide what you are comfortable with.

Even with training, one doesn't know, until they know. And trust me, you don't want to know. Just look at some recent threads on this forum referencing unholstering their weapon to a perceived threat. How just that action affected them enough to write about it. Imagine, what shooting someone would do to their psyche even if it didn't result in death.
 
#20 ·
Anyone here aware of, "Vicarious Liability"? Manufacturers cover their liability when someone decides to use their product where the "implied" acceptable standard for a HD weapon is undercut or reduced. The concept of "Deep Pockets" applies not only to the user, but the manufacturer as well.

That said, would I reduce my trigger pull on any weapon to less than the industry standard whether implied, inferred or accepted? I wouldn't recommend it. As someone mentioned, in a real life shooting you will never even notice the trigger weight, even if 10#, nor the sights. Been there done that.

Myself, I try to keep my weapons as close to what my duty weapon was or close. The GG adjustable reduces the take-up. The Apex bar smooths the action further and reduces the perceived trigger weight. Albeit I did notice a 1-2# drop in trigger weight on a new P320. I have installed the Apex trigger with the Apex bar where there wasn't any take-up. I was not comfortable with that as I have stated on this forum a "little" travel is a good thing. Why? a microsecond to think about my actions and the subsequent repercussions.

Unlike a DA/SA weapon where one meets noticeable resistance once at the wall and the hammer moving rearward, also noticeable. The striker fired weapon does not have that countercheck if you will to your actions. There's a wall, but a very small wall. I handed my old partner my GG Apex P320 recently. We both used and trained on the P226 for years. He had never handled a striker before. When he pulled the trigger on the P320 he was surprised while stating, "it's to light, Is that even safe?" I then handed him a non-modified P320 with the same reaction. Anecdotal yes, but only you can decide what you are comfortable with.

Even with training, one doesn't know, until they know. And trust me, you don't want to know. Just look at some recent threads on this forum referencing unholstering their weapon to a perceived threat. How just that action affected them enough to write about it. Imagine, what shooting someone would do to their psyche even if it didn't result in death.
I concur. I choose to carry a 226 despite our department issuing G17s. I shoot both as well as the other, I actually shoot the 226 faster even with the DA first shot. But I believe the 226 is a more versatile and safe weapon for a person under stress. The DA is overcome by training and you can be just as accurate as a striker, more in my experience. I’ve come to prefer the long pull with constant pressure over the sudden break of a striker fired pistol.
 
#21 ·
When I was having trigger work done on my 1911 a very respected gunsmith I was using recommended not going below 4.5 pounds of trigger pull for a carry gun. He ended up setting the trigger pull at 4.8 pounds. It works very well for a carry gun.

I've also shot competition guns with 2.5 pound trigger pulls. They were fun at the range, but I would never carry one. Practically just twitching the trigger finger and the gun went off. At a recent competition an experienced competitor was using a gun with a 1.25 pound trigger pull. He racked the slide and tapped the back. The gun went off. Fortunately the gun was pointed down range, but he was disqualified for an accidental discharge. Personally for me, more than 4.5 pounds is good for a carry gun.
 
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