FBI fail drop test??
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Same here, hadn't heard that, and I honestly was surprised the 320 didn't get the FBI deal, but knowing what I know about firearms testing for procurement, I can't say I'm shocked they stayed with Glock either.
I will reach out to a few guys I know in VA, and see if they can elaborate on what knocked the 320 out.
TXPO
I will reach out to a few guys I know in VA, and see if they can elaborate on what knocked the 320 out.
TXPO
That article has been around for a few months and is look at as rather suspicious , specially after reading the real FBI report . After all the Army picked the P320 as there M9 replacement !! That's a far larger contract than the FBI . Politics ,gibbs ,politics . Everybody gets a piece of the government pie at some point .
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255 Posts
Over on the M4carbine forums a poster had said there were 2 incidents of the P320 going off when dropped. One from the hood of a car, and the other accidentally dropped. To which I responded:
To clarify, about the P320 going off when dropped I call B.S. It was purposely designed to block any forward movement of the firing pin with an internal blocker until the trigger was depressed enough to lift the block.
I have 2 P320s One a Compact .45 and the other a Carry 9mm. I made sure both were empty. Using a dead blow hammer I hit bottom, top, sides, everywhere multiple times HARD, and they still dry fire. Yes, I know the difference between their "click" and a normal dry fire. The sound is unmistakable.
What more than likely happened is these 2 incidents were a Cover Your *** lie after they had fiddled [email protected]# around with it and accidentally had a discharge, and more than likely damaged property. Best answer by these two was "Not my fault. Doesn't have a safety and I thought it was unloaded and fell and fired." Gun's fault. The fault lied between these people's 2 ears my guess.
Unless my 2 pistols are the exception to the rule, they don't go off if dropped. Period. I gave them more chances with a dead blow hammer to have dropped the firing pin than any 48" test by the FBI or ICE, or the two "supposed" dropped firearms.
To clarify, about the P320 going off when dropped I call B.S. It was purposely designed to block any forward movement of the firing pin with an internal blocker until the trigger was depressed enough to lift the block.
I have 2 P320s One a Compact .45 and the other a Carry 9mm. I made sure both were empty. Using a dead blow hammer I hit bottom, top, sides, everywhere multiple times HARD, and they still dry fire. Yes, I know the difference between their "click" and a normal dry fire. The sound is unmistakable.
What more than likely happened is these 2 incidents were a Cover Your *** lie after they had fiddled [email protected]# around with it and accidentally had a discharge, and more than likely damaged property. Best answer by these two was "Not my fault. Doesn't have a safety and I thought it was unloaded and fell and fired." Gun's fault. The fault lied between these people's 2 ears my guess.
Unless my 2 pistols are the exception to the rule, they don't go off if dropped. Period. I gave them more chances with a dead blow hammer to have dropped the firing pin than any 48" test by the FBI or ICE, or the two "supposed" dropped firearms.
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Here is a tidbit of info I had found. Seems that the firearm should never fire even when dropped according to it's design feature.
F.B.I. Request For Proposals Requirements
First, the RFP requires manufacturers to provide a Compact, Full Size, Inert (Red Handle) Training, and Man Marker Training Pistols (Blue – Simunition), along with parts and armorer tools as needed. The firearm must be chambered in 9mm. For the most part, most major firearm manufacturers could provide all the necessary firearms and trainers.
BARREL LENGTH – Full size must be 4.26″ to 5.20″; Compact size must be 3.75″ to 4.25″
HEIGHT – Full size no more than 6.0″; Compact between 4.75″ to 5.6″
MAGAZINE CAPACITY – Full size at least 16 rounds; Compact at least 14 rounds
MAGAZINE DISCONNECT SAFETY – None allowed
COCKING – Only by trigger pull
TRIGGER – Firing pin/Striker fired only
TRIGGER PULL – 4.5 lbs. to 6 lbs.
MAGAZINE RELEASE – Laterally pushed, no levers
MANUAL EXTERNAL SAFETY – None allowed
DECOCKING LEVER – None allowed
GRIP SAFETY – None allowed
FRAME/RECEIVER – No finger grooves allowed, must have (3) sizes – small, medium, large; can be accomplished through inserts or different frame sizes.
PICATINNY RAIL – Required for pistol mounted lights.
SIG SAUER P320 Compact
How the FBI RFP Selects the Sig P320
Action – Striker fired DAO – cocked only through trigger pull
Overall Length – 8.0″
Barrel Length – 4.7″
Weight – 29.4 oz. (with magazine)
Height – 5.5″
Width – 1.4″
Trigger Pull – 5.5 lbs.
Capacity – 17 rounds
Magazine Release – Button pushed laterally
Sights – SIGLITE night sights
Grips – Interchangeable
Rail – Picatinny
Not Included – External manual safety; Finger grooves on frame; Grip safety; Magazine disconnect safety.
ALL THESE FEATURES MEET THE FBI RFP
FBI HQ in Washington DC
This RFP went through FBI Headquarters in Washington D.C. (photo by FBI)
How the FBI RFP Disqualifies Most
Glock 17 & 19 – DISQUALIFIED – Finger grooves on frame
Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm – DISQUALIFIED – Trigger pull is 6.5 lbs.; Barrel Length is 4.25″
Smith & Wesson M&P 9c – DISQUALIFIED – Barrel length is 3.5″; Capacity is only 12.
Heckler & Koch VP9 – DISQUALIFIED – Finger grooves; Lever magazine release; Barrel length is 4.09″
Heckler & Koch P30 – DISQUALIFIED – Capacity only 15; DA/SA action; Finger grooves on frame
Ruger SR9 – DISQUALIFIED – Barrel length is 4.1″; No compact model or adjustable frame sizes
Springfield XD9 – DISQUALIFIED – Grip safety; Barrel length is 4.0″
Springfield XDm – DISQUALIFIED – Grip safety
Walther PPX – DISQUALIFIED – Finger grooves on frame; Trigger pull is 6.5 lbs.
Walther PPQ M2 – DISQUALIFIED – Capacity only 15; Finger grooves on frame
Walther P99 – DISQUALIFIED – Finger grooves on frame; Lever magazine release; Capacity only 15
FNS 9 – DISQUALIFIED – Trigger pull up to 7.7 lbs.; Barrel length is 4.0″; No size changes for frame
FNX 9 – DISQUALIFIED – Decocking lever; Barrel length is 4.0″; No size changes for frame
Beretta M9 – DISQUALIFIED – DA/SA action; Capacity only 15; External manual safety
Beretta Px4 – DISQUALIFIED – External manual safety; Barrel length is 4.0″; DA/SA action
CZ75 SP-01- DISQUALIFIED – DA/SA action; External manual safety
CZ P09 – DISQUALIFIED – DA/SA action; External manual safety-decocker
And I agree with the above poster. POLITICS. Glock has been known to sell so low they undercut their competitors. They wanted the NYPD to carry their brand (Glock) and so they sold them at a ridiculous price per each. Reason: They could not claim and back that claim up that the large NYPD had gone exclusively to Glock as their duty weapon when they went selling these firearms to other departments.
Also I have heard Glock is really keen on customer support, and keeping stock in parts for their pistols. But I think it came down to politics.
F.B.I. Request For Proposals Requirements
First, the RFP requires manufacturers to provide a Compact, Full Size, Inert (Red Handle) Training, and Man Marker Training Pistols (Blue – Simunition), along with parts and armorer tools as needed. The firearm must be chambered in 9mm. For the most part, most major firearm manufacturers could provide all the necessary firearms and trainers.
BARREL LENGTH – Full size must be 4.26″ to 5.20″; Compact size must be 3.75″ to 4.25″
HEIGHT – Full size no more than 6.0″; Compact between 4.75″ to 5.6″
MAGAZINE CAPACITY – Full size at least 16 rounds; Compact at least 14 rounds
MAGAZINE DISCONNECT SAFETY – None allowed
COCKING – Only by trigger pull
TRIGGER – Firing pin/Striker fired only
TRIGGER PULL – 4.5 lbs. to 6 lbs.
MAGAZINE RELEASE – Laterally pushed, no levers
MANUAL EXTERNAL SAFETY – None allowed
DECOCKING LEVER – None allowed
GRIP SAFETY – None allowed
FRAME/RECEIVER – No finger grooves allowed, must have (3) sizes – small, medium, large; can be accomplished through inserts or different frame sizes.
PICATINNY RAIL – Required for pistol mounted lights.
SIG SAUER P320 Compact
How the FBI RFP Selects the Sig P320
Action – Striker fired DAO – cocked only through trigger pull
Overall Length – 8.0″
Barrel Length – 4.7″
Weight – 29.4 oz. (with magazine)
Height – 5.5″
Width – 1.4″
Trigger Pull – 5.5 lbs.
Capacity – 17 rounds
Magazine Release – Button pushed laterally
Sights – SIGLITE night sights
Grips – Interchangeable
Rail – Picatinny
Not Included – External manual safety; Finger grooves on frame; Grip safety; Magazine disconnect safety.
ALL THESE FEATURES MEET THE FBI RFP
FBI HQ in Washington DC
This RFP went through FBI Headquarters in Washington D.C. (photo by FBI)
How the FBI RFP Disqualifies Most
Glock 17 & 19 – DISQUALIFIED – Finger grooves on frame
Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm – DISQUALIFIED – Trigger pull is 6.5 lbs.; Barrel Length is 4.25″
Smith & Wesson M&P 9c – DISQUALIFIED – Barrel length is 3.5″; Capacity is only 12.
Heckler & Koch VP9 – DISQUALIFIED – Finger grooves; Lever magazine release; Barrel length is 4.09″
Heckler & Koch P30 – DISQUALIFIED – Capacity only 15; DA/SA action; Finger grooves on frame
Ruger SR9 – DISQUALIFIED – Barrel length is 4.1″; No compact model or adjustable frame sizes
Springfield XD9 – DISQUALIFIED – Grip safety; Barrel length is 4.0″
Springfield XDm – DISQUALIFIED – Grip safety
Walther PPX – DISQUALIFIED – Finger grooves on frame; Trigger pull is 6.5 lbs.
Walther PPQ M2 – DISQUALIFIED – Capacity only 15; Finger grooves on frame
Walther P99 – DISQUALIFIED – Finger grooves on frame; Lever magazine release; Capacity only 15
FNS 9 – DISQUALIFIED – Trigger pull up to 7.7 lbs.; Barrel length is 4.0″; No size changes for frame
FNX 9 – DISQUALIFIED – Decocking lever; Barrel length is 4.0″; No size changes for frame
Beretta M9 – DISQUALIFIED – DA/SA action; Capacity only 15; External manual safety
Beretta Px4 – DISQUALIFIED – External manual safety; Barrel length is 4.0″; DA/SA action
CZ75 SP-01- DISQUALIFIED – DA/SA action; External manual safety
CZ P09 – DISQUALIFIED – DA/SA action; External manual safety-decocker
And I agree with the above poster. POLITICS. Glock has been known to sell so low they undercut their competitors. They wanted the NYPD to carry their brand (Glock) and so they sold them at a ridiculous price per each. Reason: They could not claim and back that claim up that the large NYPD had gone exclusively to Glock as their duty weapon when they went selling these firearms to other departments.
Also I have heard Glock is really keen on customer support, and keeping stock in parts for their pistols. But I think it came down to politics.
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Did they try dropping a primed cartridge from 48"? It may have been a characteristic of the primer and not the gun.
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860 Posts
Anyone who has disassembled a P320 striker assembly would have to admit that it is very easy to NOT get the firing pin safety or its minuscule spring back in their proper places.
I can certainly see somebody blame the gun after messing with the firing pin safety (upper yellow piece in the photo).
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I can certainly see somebody blame the gun after messing with the firing pin safety (upper yellow piece in the photo).
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2,345 Posts
Sounds unlikely to me. I have seen a lot of "internet commando" speculation though.
Word is that the P320 has been selected as new duty pistol for ICE which is another huge win for SIG and another battery of tests it had to pass.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24441-It-s-Official-SIG-P320C-is-the-new-ICE-HSI-duty-gun
Word is that the P320 has been selected as new duty pistol for ICE which is another huge win for SIG and another battery of tests it had to pass.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24441-It-s-Official-SIG-P320C-is-the-new-ICE-HSI-duty-gun
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I could see a couple of weapons making it through the testing regime satisfactorily and then, at selection time, the one that has the existing user and parts base within the organization ends up getting selected because it doesn't require retraining of an entire workforce.
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My department switched from the P229r DAK to the P320 full size. When I was at a week long advanced firearms training class their was one other agency there that carried the P320 full size.
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I agree with your statement completely. Sometimes folks won't admit fault, and this can cause a trickle down, butterfly effect.
I didn't want to get involved in the rumor mill of the 320 drop test failure, but it does seem unlikely, that in the event the 320 failed a drop test, would it had been allowed to continue.
The whole thing smells like upper echelon politics to me, thats my contribution to the rumor mill.
Their RFP was written almost like the design specs for the 320 straight from Sig. Someone there in the Gov sure wanted them. The something happened along the way, and the 320 failed out, but yet, know one will spill the beans.
When the G17M had it slide issues, that made it out to general public, even before the pistol probably made it back to Smyrna.
So the 320 fails out of the Gov testing, which went on for quite some time, and no one knows nothing, other than they failed.....Hmmmmm
Until there is something concrete that comes out showing an issue with the 320, I will continue carrying mine.
Anyone who has been around guns for any period of time, can remember how many Glock just went off....
TXPO
Does anyone have any substantiation that these incidents actually happened, other than unsubstantiated rumor posts on other forums? If they do, then it should be posted. If not, this thread should be deleted. It's very existence and title has the effect of planting a seed of doubt about this gun.
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Tampering with the gun and failing to put back, or engage the firing pin safety spring might have been the reason why the striker was released and gun went off after dropping.
I remember loosing that super small spring and not even noticing it till I did a manual inspection of fully assembled slide/fcu/gun ( which I always do after reassembly, just to be sure ). The trigger pull is nicer without the safety though, I must admit
I remember loosing that super small spring and not even noticing it till I did a manual inspection of fully assembled slide/fcu/gun ( which I always do after reassembly, just to be sure ). The trigger pull is nicer without the safety though, I must admit
Best thang to do in the future is do some more research before assuming info found on a forum in factual and not third hand or even worse that that hear say !!
THis is OLD NEWS at this point and bad news at best . Now lets move on to something worth while .
THis is OLD NEWS at this point and bad news at best . Now lets move on to something worth while .
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