SIG Talk banner
  • Notice image

    SigTalk is a forum community dedicated to SIG Sauer enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about Sig Sauer pistols and rifles, optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!

Early 1998 German Proofed P245

1448 Views 25 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  Skyviking
I wanted to post a few pictures of the P245 that I recently acquired. The gun jumped out to me because in addition to the frame being marked "Made in Germany" the slide is also proofed with an eagle over N. I have never seen this in pictures of other P245 pistols.

The slide itself is not date coded under the front hood piece like a P228, which is interesting. The barrel, however, does had a "KJ" date code on the left side in addition to some German proofs - this indicates 1998 German manufacture. The grips are also both dated December 1998, and all the magazines that came with the gun (I bought it with seven magazines total) are dated 1998 on the floorplate - albeit with various production months.

Despite the lack of a date code on the frame or slide, all this information suggests that the pistol is all German and was made in 1998. Has anybody ever seen a P245 this early? It is interesting to me that the pistol has the later type of takedown lever - has anybody ever seen a P245 with the early, flat lever?

Let me know what you think, and also if any of you have early P245 pistols, I'd appreciate your letting me know about the type of lever and proof marks found on your guns.

Air gun Wood Trigger Gun barrel Gun accessory
Air gun Wood Gun barrel Everyday carry Gun accessory
Office supplies Auto part Skyscraper Wood Household hardware
Wood Rectangle Material property Hardwood Font
White Black Grey Style Line
Hood Communication Device Bumper Grey Everyday carry
See less See more
6
  • Like
Reactions: 5
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Yes, it's all German made, assembled and proofed. Date code typically appears only on one major part. So, nothing unusual about it appearing on the barrel only. As to the small parts like the TDL, could have been swapped aftermarket.
  • Like
Reactions: 1
Yes, it's all German made, assembled and proofed. Date code typically appears only on one major part. So, nothing unusual about it appearing on the barrel only. As to the small parts like the TDL, could have been swapped aftermarket.
Thanks for the information. Have you ever seen a P245 with the early flat take down lever? I am trying to figure out if my gun would have originally come from the factory with the flat lever or the later lever. I would like to restore it to how it was originally made.

Also, seeing as the gun is used, I would like to replace the locking block roll pin. Is this pin the same for all sig pistols of all calibers?
^^^I couldn't tell you for sure about the takedown lever, but all other 1998 SIGs I have seen originally had the "old" flat style. And no, plenty of different SIG roll pins in existence. But, the folded slide guns all use the same roll pin (two pins actually, one inner, one outer).

Edit: typo for year
^^^I couldn't tell you for sure about the takedown lever, but all other 1996 SIGs I have seen originally had the "old" flat style. And no, plenty of different SIG roll pins in existence. But, the folded slide guns all use the same roll pin (two pins actually, one inner, one outer).
I see - have you ever seen any 1998 dated sig with the new style takedown lever?

OK good to know - are these roll pins still available from sig? I'm realizing it might be hard to find them as all the folded steel slide pistols are no longer in production.
^^^Sorry, I meant to write 1998, not 1996. I edited my first post.

Anyway, I am pretty sure that the first time I saw the new style of takedown lever was in the 2000s. I did not see them in the 1990s at all.

The pins are not widely available anymore from what I can tell. The spares that I owned (in the SIG baggies) were made both in the US and in Germany. The outer pins were US. The inner pins were Germany. So it does make sense that the German supply will dry up faster (or has already dried up) since SIG Germany is shut down. Midway only has the outer pins left on their website and they're out-of-stock.

Member GerryR on this forum used to make single-piece spiral replacement pins that work just as well (or better). It might be worth asking around if he still makes them.
Anyway, I am pretty sure that the first time I saw the new style of takedown lever was in the 2000s.
This has been my observation as well, very early 2000s.
This has been my observation as well, very early 2000s.
The closest I ever got to an exact year for the new takedown lever was 2001 or 2002, at least as far as the P226 is concerned (the bulk of my P-Series experience).

I came across two P226s. Both guns were in all-original condition, both guns were made in 2000 (based on serial numbers), and both guns had the old style (flat) takedown lever. The September 2002 edition of Guns & Ammo Handguns magazine shows the NYPD-spec P226 with the new style takedown lever. I suppose late 2000 is also an option then, but in any case, between 2000 and 2002 was when the new style takedown lever showed up.
Air gun Trigger Revolver Gun barrel Font
See less See more
remember that this was one of the first "changes" from the usual SIG Sauer pistol recipe'...I don't recall ever seeing a P245 with the flat takedown lever...the P245 also had the wider spaced slide serrations...

here is a pic from an early site showing the then new SIG pistol... SIG SAUER P245

mine is from 1999 and has had the "newer" style takedown since new...hope this helps...

Bill
  • Like
Reactions: 1
^^^That's good to know. Now that I think about it, I don't recall ever seeing a P245 with the old takedown lever either. But I never owned a P245 myself, and I don't remember the date code on the last one I handled in person (which was around 3 years ago). So I wouldn't guess one way or the other if they exist or not. Most of my P-series experience is with the P220/P226/P228/P229 (and P226 the most out of those).
The May 1999 issue of the American Rifleman shows a then new P245 wither the “new” takedown lever...the serial number on that P245 in the article dates that pistol to 1998/1999...

Bill
  • Like
Reactions: 2
All of the 600+ P220 guns I purchased for my PD in early 1998 had the old TDL. This one pictured, has grips dated 11/2000.
Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Gun accessory Wood
Vertebrate Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Gun accessory
See less See more
2
I actually just did a little more research on the subject. Multiple online images of P239 brochures (that are all claimed to be from 1997) show a P239 with the new style of takedown lever.
This is mine from 1999. Serial is C009XXX.

View attachment 462737
Nice gun! Out of curiosity, is there an eagle over N on the slide on your gun? Is the barrel date coded on the left side?

I would like to try and figure out when they stopped doing that
I actually just did a little more research on the subject. Multiple online images of P239 brochures (that are all claimed to be from 1997) show a P239 with the new style of takedown lever.
Interesting - so it seems that perhaps the "new style" takedown lever is much older, but was rolled out on less popular pistols before it was introduced on the 226 and 229? This would make sense as it seems that it may be true that the p245 always came with the new style lever.

What I don't understand then is that I assumed that the new style lever was an MIM part made in America, and not made in Germany. Would that imply that my pistol was actually assembled in America out of German made and German proofed components?
  • Like
Reactions: 1
It wasn’t that those pistols were less popular but that they were new designs/versions of pistols from the original P Series pistols…

mad for where made I thought ALL P245s were German made but perhaps some were US assembled…

also remember around this time SIGARMS was introducing their stainless one piece slides and the P245 is still the older stamped steel slide pinned to a breach-block design like the original P Series pistols…

Bill
  • Like
Reactions: 1
these were a dan's ammo lot, test target, cardboard shell:

shown with 220 compact....parts not interchangeable

both sold long ago.

Attachments

See less See more
9
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 5
Interesting - so it seems that perhaps the "new style" takedown lever is much older, but was rolled out on less popular pistols before it was introduced on the 226 and 229? This would make sense as it seems that it may be true that the p245 always came with the new style lever.

What I don't understand then is that I assumed that the new style lever was an MIM part made in America, and not made in Germany. Would that imply that my pistol was actually assembled in America out of German made and German proofed components?
If it has German proof marks, it was all done in Germany. Your confusion comes from the fact that there are actually two versions (not just one version) of the new style takedown lever. The one in your gun is the first version, which is not MIM. The second version is the MIM one (you can find it on much newer US-made SIGs). The cosmetic differences are subtle, but once you compare them, it will always be easy to tell. The MIM one is made in India, not the US.
It wasn’t that those pistols were less popular but that they were new designs/versions of pistols from the original P Series pistols…

mad for where made I thought ALL P245s were German made but perhaps some were US assembled…

also remember around this time SIGARMS was introducing their stainless one piece slides and the P245 is still the older stamped steel slide pinned to a breach-block design like the original P Series pistols…

Bill
I couldn't say anything definite, but I do believe the P245 had both a "German-made/assembled/proofed" variety and a (less-common) "German-made/USA-assembled" variety.
  • Like
Reactions: 1
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top