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Dot Sights and Batteries...

2K views 45 replies 10 participants last post by  Spookster 
#1 ·
I see a lot of you folks have the dot sights... the information y'all have put out is absolutely overwhelming...
This generates some questions I have developed...

The Batteries:
  • How good/long is the battery life??...
  • are they expensive???...
  • how easy are they to change???...
  • are they readily available???...
  • are the batteries Ion or Mercury???...
  • are the dead ones normal trash disposable???...
  • is there much of a warning that the battery is about to go south???...
  • how easy are they to change under duress???...
The sight:
  • is it still functional as a sight w/o battery power or are you dead in the water???...
  • are they manual or automatic turn on???...
  • are they detectable from straight on like the old infrareds or night vision???...
  • how much abuse can they withstand???...
  • can we easily remove the sight if need be or do they take tools???...
  • can they be installed on top of conventional sights???...
  • are they drop proof to the concrete or worse???...
  • how about immersible???...
  • or are they built like a Timex watch???
thanks, I sure could use some help...
FWIW.. everything I have is OEM basic... plain iron or tritium...
 
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#2 ·
A little research online will answer most of your questions. Any advice given here would be personal choice as far as preference for EDC. I follow the caveat that anything electrical will fail you at the most inopportune time.

Batteries are cheap to replace, and one must establish a replacement pattern of time, i.e., every January etc.

Changing batteries under stress is a fool's errand for even trained professionals. Highly unlikely and unnecessary in a civilian environment.

Dispose of batteries as you would any household battery and shouldn't be a concern unless you're a tree hugger.

A battery will fail slowly or quickly, depending on the manufacturer and the electrical drain of each individual optic.

One should practice point combat shooting with the optic mounted and off to determine the weapons POA/POI using the slide as a reference. Unless one has BUIS sights set for an optic. Then practice with those as well.

Some optics automatically shut down without movement, some don't. Depending on manufacturer and price.

Never, and I mean NEVER depend on technology for your survival. Murphy lurks forever. Learn to shoot with irons and then learn about optics. Additionally, remember equipment is only as robust and dependable as you robustly care for it. Don't care for it and it will fail you.

These are weapons, not Audi's, Mercedes, Porches, or whatever bragging prize one wants to show off to friends, but tools of a trade, tools of a sport, but just tools. Tools show usage and such from being tools. Looking for perfection is looking for the impossible and will cause you disappointment.
 
#3 ·
thanks for your reply..

A little research online will answer most of your questions.
I am on line doin just that...
I'm looking for the personal experiences from the readership as the knowledge/experience base here runs pretty deep...
I'm attempting to develop my own pro/con list so to speak...
the folks here are users, the best source available...
edicts from sponsored evaluators lends to be questioned and often taken w/ a grain of salt...
I do (or did) a lot of multi trade construction.. the tool evaluations seen were usually short term (as in hours) and often sponsored...
you want to do a real evaluation - take the tool, evaluate it now and then take it out to the job and seriously "work" it for 6 months or a year...
then get back to us w/ what you have found...
this is exactly what has/is happening here...


Any advice given here would be personal choice...
Not so much for advice, I want to delve into the wide range of the membership's personal experiences to help me put together my own pro/con list...
their happiness's or groans, will speak volumes...
like I said.. trying to piece this together has been a daunting task...


I follow the caveat that anything electrical will fail you at the most inopportune time.
Same here..
I also believe in "what if" and in the head alarms/warnings/flags ...
I really like the MISS/KISS program.. (Make It Super Simple - Keep It Super Simple)...
it's nice a nice program to live by... and skip the lets find/build a solution and then search for a problem..
I think "over thinking" is a disorder...


Changing batteries under stress is a fool's errand for even trained professionals. Highly unlikely and unnecessary in a civilian environment.
to rephrase... change outs, simple and easy or are/can they be difficult/frustrating???
do they take special tools you some how don't have w/ you??? (it was Murphy again)...
some other factors/influences - is it dark, are the temps subzero or are we in a monsoon???...
Note; - I actively hunt using hand guns... sights matter...


Dispose of batteries as you would any household battery and shouldn't be a concern unless you're a tree hugger.
Okay... but AIU, it seems some batteries can't be disposed of or recycled...

A battery will fail slowly or quickly, depending on the manufacturer and the electrical drain of each individual optic.
What then??? are we dead in the water and the sight has become nothing more than an ornament???

One should practice point combat shooting...
Done...

Some optics automatically shut down without movement, some don't. Depending on manufacturer and price.
will the optic turn on while it's in carry mode???
turn off if you are holding a site picture???


Never, and I mean NEVER depend on technology for your survival.
I don't.. no laser and I can read a map and use a compass..
emergency gear is redundantly redundant...


Murphy lurks forever.
for sure...

Learn to shoot with irons
done and then some..
Note: - any conventional optic I have has see through mounts...


and then learn about optics.
that's what I'm trying to do..

Additionally, remember equipment is only as robust and dependable as you robustly care for it.
but accidents and Murphy always lurk...

Don't care for it and it will fail you.
that's a given...

These are weapons, not Audi's.....
yes...

but tools of a trade, tools of a sport, but just tools.
exactly..

Looking for perfection is looking for the impossible and will cause you disappointment.
not going there...
 
#8 ·
Check out Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics he does a lot of work with RDS for pistols, the link to his YouTube page is below and also the link to his white paper on RDS as well. He has a lot of videos on different RDS on his YouTube page to may for me to post them all here. I find them to be very helpful hopefully you will as well.


Sage Dynamics White Paper on Red Dot Sights 2021 Edition
7dc128_65844d9baead41afab8bfabb23e912fa.pdf (sagedynamics.org)

SageDynamics - YouTube
 
#14 ·
Check out Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics he does a lot of work with RDS for pistols, the link to his YouTube page is below and also the link to his white paper on RDS as well. He has a lot of videos on different RDS on his YouTube page to may for me to post them all here. I find them to be very helpful hopefully you will as well.


Sage Dynamics White Paper on Red Dot Sights 2021 Edition
7dc128_65844d9baead41afab8bfabb23e912fa.pdf (sagedynamics.org)

SageDynamics - YouTube
thanks...
all of what you have offered will be read and viewed...
it sure looks to be a wealth of information and wiil take some time to digest..
 
#9 ·
@Stick486 The original post along with your response to the first comprehensive reply seem more like an attempt to carry on an argument versus a genuine quest for information. If you're truly looking for opinions then take the ones you're given and move on. Arguing against the specifics (and citing each clause you find disagreeable) does not seem likely to generate goodwill or good advice on the part of us readers.
 
#11 ·
The original post along with your response to the first comprehensive reply seem more like an attempt to carry on an argument versus a genuine quest for information.
I'm sorry you see it that way, that was never the intention and I don't see how you arrived at that conclusion...
would you care to clarify???

so far... the battery question has has been pretty well covered...
Hopefully, IRL durability (shock, immersion and trauma) coverage and what can be done for a sight picture w/o batteries will be additionally addressed...
Also, can you have dot optics and iron sights too on the same gun???...
 
#10 ·
I see a lot of you folks have the dot sights... the information y'all have put out is absolutely overwhelming...
This generates some questions I have developed...

The Batteries:
  • How good/long is the battery life??...
    • Inversely proportional to the amount of use. Very short if left on while in storage
  • are they expensive???...
    • Depends. If you have to ask the price then you can't afford 'em
  • how easy are they to change???...
    • Easier than the diaper on a struggling newborn
  • are they readily available???...
    • Yes, except during pandemic lockdowns when they may also be in short supply
  • are the batteries Ion or Mercury???...
    • Who cares? And, why?
  • are the dead ones normal trash disposable???...
    • Everything is disposable, legality or advisability may vary
  • is there much of a warning that the battery is about to go south???...
    • Only if you happen to be looking at the dot at the time. BTW, you're not supposed to look at the dot.
  • how easy are they to change under duress???...
    • Not too bad if she isn't kicking...oh, never mind, I thought you said 'dress'
The sight:
  • is it still functional as a sight w/o battery power or are you dead in the water???...
    • Definitely. Just put the target inside the window and point the end of the barrel at the desired POI
  • are they manual or automatic turn on???...
    • Yes. Most are gender neutral and respond quickly to manual stimulation
  • are they detectable from straight on like the old infrareds or night vision???...
    • Absolutely, except for the SAS, you can even detect the presence of one from side angles, if you're close enough
  • how much abuse can they withstand???...
    • Depends. Verbal or physical?
  • can we easily remove the sight if need be or do they take tools???...
    • No, they don't take the tools - you get to keep them, unless you borrowed then from a friend
  • can they be installed on top of conventional sights???...
    • No. Generally they have to be installed on top of the slide, for handguns, at least.
  • are they drop proof to the concrete or worse???...
    • Hmmm, never seen one dropped on 'worse'. Not sure what that would be.
  • how about immersible???...
    • Never seen one dropped on 'immersible' either.
  • or are they built like a Timex watch???
    • Truly. However, not all of them 'tick', especially the ones from Sig.
thanks, I sure could use some help...
I believe this is a true statement
FWIW.. everything I have is OEM basic... plain iron or tritium...
Ahh, but are they? I suspect 'plain iron' would present a rust problem. Steel is much more likely.
All in good fun. Disingenuity breeds disingenuity. Wait, is that really a word??
 
#15 ·
it's a word.. had to look it up..
now I'm having a really hard time following you and your train of thought and what has provoked your commentary...
 
#16 ·
I would also highly recommend this thread - lots of good info:

 
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#23 ·
As far as battery life there are a couple of features to look for on an RDS.
1. Motion activated
2. Alternate power source

Many RDS makers will include some kind of motion activated feature so that it is only on once moved and shuts off after a length of time. Sig RDS calls this MOTAC. Other makers may have other terminology for it like Holosun who calls it Shake Awake.

Some RDS makers provide alternative or backup power sources.
My Holosun 510 RDSs have solar backup if the battery fails. ⬇
Automotive tire Camera lens Reflex camera Automotive design Digital camera
 
#25 · (Edited)
Good discussion! One reality-check: Most coin-shaped batteries are primary lithium systems and are not appropriate to dispose in household trash. The lithium metal anode, organic electrolyte, etc. are not appropriate for household landfill, any more than lithium ion rechargeables, lithium AA, or other flavors. Coin cells are small, but they contain toxic materials that should never go into landfills. All 3V coin cells used in every optic system I'm aware of are primary lithium.

Alkaline batteries are another matter (coin or cylindrical). The days are long past when mercury was needed to enhance electrical conductivity in alkaline battery anodes, thus all commercial alkaline chemistry-based batteries sold today are totally fine for household waste disposal. Some municipalities haven't gotten the memo on this reality change and still ban them, but that's not based on current science or reality, but a hold-over from the past. We can toss alkaline batteries in the trash with a clean conscience. Just not lithium ones.
 
#33 ·
Not all handguns allow for backup iron sights. It changes from gun to gun.

Some red dots are capable of being immersed and roughed around. Would I be surprised if I fell in a creek and it didn’t work. No

The intangible you haven’t mentioned is age. Aging eyes can be helped by a red dot, unless you have astigmatism and then that’s another story…

Age Part 2: it is my experience that quite a few older shooters find the change to a red dot difficult to do. They are used to iron sights and don’t really give themselves time to get used to a red dot. A red dot like everything else requires a lot of practice, but once you get used to them they are great. I run a red dot on almost all my guns - pistols and ARs. I can shoot at distance much better with a red dot than I can iron sights.

Buy one a try one out for awhile. You’ll know pretty quickly if it’s for you or not. If you don’t like it, you won’t have any problem selling it.
 
#37 ·
....Buy one a try one out for awhile. You’ll know pretty quickly if it’s for you or not...
"For awhile" being the operative word. I think too many people decide to try a red dot out, go to the range with it once or twice not having adjusted their draw, presentation and aim to adapt to a new sighting device, and then consequently struggle to find the dot and determine "it's not for them."

Expect it will take some training and adjustment, as all things worth trying do. But if you stick with it, and put the dry reps into adapting to it, you will likely find, like many people do, that at some point it will 'click' and start to become intuitive. And at that point the light bulbs will start to go off, and you'll probably find that's it's actually faster than acquiring iron sights and allows you to stay focused on the target the entire time, rather than having to shift focus between a target and a front sight prior to firing.

Expect it will take practice, but that practice will pay off.
 
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