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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Trigger control is half the battle. The other is sight alignment (with irons). . . .
Shooting with a dot has been a game-changer for me. One-handed I present at arm's length and can have a hard time finding the dot (and that's the 50-MOA shaking). Two-handed I bring the gun up close and the dot is always somewhere in the sight window, super-steady, and I put the dot on the target subconsciously.

I can be pretty accurate with irons, but I need to concentrate on my sight picture. I've read others' experience going from irons to dots and only being as accurate or maybe less with the dot at first.

I think that's about my experience too, but only when I'm relaxed at the range and can concentrate on sight picture. Anything that messes up concentration and irons suffer really badly.

So, for me, difficult shooting conditions are where dots really improve the result. Dots also allow accurate sighting with the gun up close, which allows rapid presentation and a bullet on target under circumstances where using irons would be dicey - I'd either have a really poor sight picture or run out of space.

The only downside is there's not really and "half way" aiming like with irons. You can sorta-kinda line up rear and front irons super-fast, albeit with a large accuracy penalty. But the dot is either there or it isn't.
 

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The only downside is there's not really and "half way" aiming like with irons. You can sorta-kinda line up rear and front irons super-fast, albeit with a large accuracy penalty. But the dot is either there or it isn't.
You’re not going to improve in using a dot if you believe in this. Just like riflescopes, you need to know where to hold under/over all the time to be able to hit your target.

Shooting with a dot, I zero mine at 20 yards. Then I shoot targets at 3-5-7-10-15-25-30 yards to figure out my hold under/over at those distances. This way, I know exactly where to hold under/over so the bullets still hits the target.

Keep in mind too that target focus is the key in using a dot and hitting the target fast and accurate. This is in addition to doing dry fire to establish your “index” so the dot will always be superimposed on the target. Then do live fire to confirm and affirm what you learned in dry fire.

I shoot competitively using a dot and and way faster and more accurate with it comp to irons. So much so that almost all of my guns have a dot (I don’t want to mill my 1911s).
 

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So much so that almost all of my guns have a dot (I don’t want to mill my 1911s).
In SIG's 2021 catalogue they list a 1911 with a Romeo installed.
I am going to pick one up when they become available to replace my P220 SAO and then I will be 100% RD.
 
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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Shooting with a dot, I zero mine at 20 yards. Then I shoot targets at 3-5-7-10-15-25-30 yards to figure out my hold under/over . . .
I zero at 50 ft (17 yds) and don't worry about it otherwise: dot on target, pull trigger. It's pretty unlikely I'd be presented with a threat small enough to worry about it.

Inside that range the vertical error is inconsequential. When things get far enough to be worried about bullet drop I would hold over if I were to attempt a shot but it's pretty unlikely I'd be shooting at that range. You have to be thinking about your legal protection too.
 

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I zero at 50 ft (17 yds) and don't worry about it otherwise: dot on target, pull trigger. It's pretty unlikely I'd be presented with a threat small enough to worry about it.

Inside that range the vertical error is inconsequential. When things get far enough to be worried about bullet drop I would hold over if I were to attempt a shot but it's pretty unlikely I'd be shooting at that range. You have to be thinking about your legal protection too.
I used those numbers since there are instances when 6 inch steel targets are about 25-30 yards.

And based on the info you posted above, what’s the point in saying “The only downside is there's not really and "half way" aiming like with irons. You can sorta-kinda line up rear and front irons super-fast, albeit with a large accuracy penalty. But the dot is either there or it isn't.”

The dot better be there all the time when you aim at your target. If not, you need more dry fire and live fire practice. It doesn’t matter what distance, the dot better be there when you aim at your target at all times unless the red dot is off or broken.

Anyway, good luck in your endeavors. I hope you won’t get into another situation like you experienced before and if you do, hopefully you had practiced enough with your red dot so each time you draw, the index is always the same and the dot is superimposed on the target.

Im out of here.
 

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One note. While you train for aimed shooting by focusing on the front sight, setting up the sight alignment and then the sight picture, point shooting technique for close quarters is a bit different.

This has a reasonable explanation. It's accuracy is completely based on muscle memory and training.


At 10 feet, you're at the outer range where point shooting technique would provide adequate accuracy for most people with average experience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
The dot better be there all the time when you aim at your target. If not, you need more dry fire and live fire practice. It doesn’t matter what distance, the dot better be there when you aim at your target at all times unless the red dot is off or broken.
. . .
One of the drills I practice is to aim up, down, each side, and in front. It's actually easy to lose the dot across all those positions. Or when footing is odd. Or drawing and shooting one-handed when you were doing something else.

Keep in mind though, you don't see me going back to irons.

What I'm up to is finding the weak links in my defense and working to make them stronger.

What I'm finding is, most of my training with irons probably needs to be altered a bit to account for the unique aspects of optical sights. The pistol becomes a slightly different machine. Much better weapon, IMO.
 

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RDS are indeed quicker - when you can see the dot. Scotty's (I hope you don't mind my projecting your moniker,"engineer Scott", to Star-Trek's engineer Scott) recent real-world experience demonstrates that elevation is indeed a critical factor in making hits- esp. when dealing with moving targets that are much smaller than the humanoid silhouettes on the square range. YMMV, but Scotty's experience and efforts to learn from them cannot be taken seriously enough by all of us.
 
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