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Are red box sigs supposed to be good to go out of the box?

7K views 57 replies 31 participants last post by  rbrey381 
#1 · (Edited)
I bought a P226 and a P229 this year, both in .40 S&W. The P226 which was just sold as a used PD trade in, I stripped, replaced all springs and reassembled. The P229 was a red box refurm model, and I just stripped and cleaned and lubed it, assuming it had all new springs.

Took both to the range for the first time. The P226 was flawless and ate the ball and JHP ammo I fed it, around 50 or so.

The P229 had a series of double feed jams. I pulled the trigger and no bang, not sure if it was out of battery and would let the hammer drop. I assumed a broken FP spring at first. The recoil spring is funky that it is a lot longer than the guide rod, but I guess that's normal.

Should I assume springs are new on a redbox and look for other causes? I just had one mag with me, are redbox mag springs replaced?

The P226 is a warhorse and veryaccurate. Haven't even started with 357 sig barrel yet

Thanks in advance!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 
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#40 ·
My observations related to the initial topic of this thread

I initially thought there was a problem with the recoil spring after seeing the photo of a compressed spring on the guide rod. However, I found this discussion interesting enough to dig out two P229 .40 S&W pistols to check their recoil spring fit.

I observed the same thing on both of my pistols. The springs were very tight on the guide rod and the coils were partially compressed. I measured the diameter of each guide rod to be about 0.330", which seems to be consistent with information I found in other posts.

One of the pistols was purchased new and still has the blue paint on the spring. So I knew it was the correct spring. The other pistol was purchased used and the paint was gone, but it was the same length and had the same number of coils as the other spring.

I re-assembled both pistols with a plan of observing how the spring slides over the guide rod while manually forcing the barrel forward in the slide. However, I observed something interesting before attempting to slide the barrel forward. The spring was now loose along the entire length of the guide rod.

It appears the inside diameter of the spring increases when compressed and it no longer drags on the guide rod. The same was observed on both pistols.

So the initial conclusion many of us made after seeing the photo of a compressed spring on the guide rod may not be valid once the spring is installed in the slide assembly.

JackJack can you try this with your original recoil spring and guide rod to see you experience the same effect?
 
#41 ·
On mine, the bind was so bad it was almost impossible to get to slide lock, so I'm going to call "Nope" on your theory . . (that, coupled with Sig agreeing that my spring was bad . . . and I *think* publishing a note about this issue as well).

It is likely, though, that the problem may develop over time, and that there might be a period when it acts like yours did prior to becoming a problem.
 
#42 ·
I've had two CPO Sigs, a P229 in 40S&W that I didn't keep (I'm done with .40, period) and another in 9mm. Both looked and felt brand new, and functioned flawlessly. Every other used Sig I've bought needed the recoil spring replaced, even the ones that had springs that appeared to be new had to be replaced as it was obvious the springs were pretty tired out.
 
#47 ·
Haven't gotten around to contacting Sig yet, but right now I'll test the sprinco gr/flat spring setup and let you all know how that works. The function test went well, no binding on the GR, which is thinner than the stock one. I also have the Grayguns fat custom stainless steel guide rod as a backup.

I know galling isn't much of a thing as it used to be, but given that the slide is stainless and the aftermarket guide rods are as well, wondering if that's a potential hazard. Maybe not as much because they are likely different grades of stainless?

Not sure what the stock guide rod is made of, can anyone tell from my original photo? Il check with a magnet but I believe it's blue steel.

Thanks again, everyone!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 
#48 · (Edited)
Update: Took the P229 with flat spring and Sprinco guide rod to a defensive handgun course. Got about 20 rounds thru it and several type 1 and type 2 type 3 malfunctions.

Instructor thought it might be a bit "dry". Do classic Sigs need to be run wet like a 1911?

While lubing it up, lost the slide bushing and so I finished the course with my Glock.

Went to the range on Friday and replaced the sprinco with the gray guns fat guide rod I bought. Had less malfunctions but it still seemed sticky in the 50 rounds I shot. Replaced with Wolff extra power 17lb springs (round and braided) and shot another 50 perfectly.

Going to have to put another 200 rounds without a malfunction to see if it's worthy to carry. Right now, can't trust it.

Sprinco is sending me a couple of slide bushings ao I can give it one more chance.

On the other hand, my P226R with SRT is the bee's knees. Might switch over to the 357 Sig barrel for carry.

What say you?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 
#49 ·
Update: Took the P229 with flat spring and Sprinco guide rod to a defensive handgun course. Got about 20 rounds thru it and several type 1 and type 2 malfunctions.

Instructor thought it might be a bit "dry". Do classic Sigs need to be run wet like a 1911?

While lubing it up, lost the slide bushing and so I finished the course with my Glock.

Went to the range on Friday and replaced the sprinco with the gray guns fat guide rod I bought. Had less malfunctions but it still seemed sticky in the 50 rounds I shot. Replaced with Wolff extra power 17lb springs (round and braided) and shot another 50 perfectly.

Going to have to put another 200 rounds without a malfunction to see if it's worthy to carry. Right now, can't trust it.

Sprinco is sending me a couple of slide bushings ao I can give it one more chance.

On the other hand, my P226R with SRT is the bee's knees. Might switch over to the 357 Sig barrel for carry.

What say you?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
You never mentioned the ammo?
 
#51 ·
I'll say no to the original question. All the CPO's I have bought had more of a storage/rust preventative goo (Consmoline of something similar) in them that was very sticky, so I always do a pretty deep clean to get rid of that and a good relube, and never had issues (well, other than the bad recoil spring in a 229 I have mentioned).

Yiu definitely want to clean and lube right out of the box, though.

And yes, "classic" Sigs like to be a bit wet . . . the only misfeed I have ever had was in my W. German 226 when I let it get dry years ago soon after I bought it. (I grease the rails and other slidy parts, and oil elsewhere . . . )
 
#52 ·
I have one CPO P229 .40 and it's flawless since day one. Although the light blue recoil spring you have was exactly the same as mine, it was shooting normal. But I didn't like how it was binding on to the guide rod so I bought a stainless steel guide rod and new recoil spring (flat wire) from Osage & Midway. It's much much easier to separate the two now.

Looks like your recoil spring is binding that's why it looks shorter.
 
#53 · (Edited)
Okay here's the update...

Using the Grayguns Fat custom rod (stainless) and Wolff Xtra Power 17lb recoil spring, which is round but not braided.

This was working for a bit and then I kept getting Type 1 malfunction with the cartridge nose caught on the feed ramp, tail up and out of battery. Tried with a couple different mags, one being brand spanking new.

Tapping made the slide close and I was able to fire normally.

I swapped out the .40 S&W barrel for a new .357 sig barrel and I shot about 30 rounds flawlessly.

I cleaned the pistol and noticed no scuffs nor tool marks on the ramp, but I'm going to hand polish it and see how it goes next time.

Any other suggestions? Stronger recoil spring needed?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 
#55 ·
In regards to original question:

I have been extremely lucky and have received 4 excellent Red Box Sigs - P226 .40, P226 Elite 9mm, P229 Elite 9mm, and P320 Carry .357 and .40. Each also came with at least 2 magazines and 3 came with a TacPac type set up with holster.

To be quiet honest, I have not had the time to take these out yet since I have multiples of each. The P226 I have fired is DAK and the Elite is not. The P226 I briefly did an inspection, made sure it had appropriate lube etc, took it outside and blasted away. I have 4 DAK's (P220, P226, P229 x 2) and honestly it seems fine to me. I guess I am used to it. I have no problem being on target. I have thought about converting them. Rather than send them in, I may try my hand at doing it. I have one P229 Elite that I am totally gutting at the moment.
 
#57 ·
I bought a P226 and a P229 this year, both in .40 S&W. The P226 which was just sold as a used PD trade in, I stripped, replaced all springs and reassembled. The P229 was a red box refurm model, and I just stripped and cleaned and lubed it, assuming it had all new springs.

Took both to the range for the first time. The P226 was flawless and ate the ball and JHP ammo I fed it, around 50 or so.

The P229 had a series of double feed jams. I pulled the trigger and no bang, not sure if it was out of battery and would let the hammer drop. I assumed a broken FP spring at first. The recoil spring is funky that it is a lot longer than the guide rod, but I guess that's normal.

Should I assume springs are new on a redbox and look for other causes? I just had one mag with me, are redbox mag springs replaced?

The P226 is a warhorse and veryaccurate. Haven't even started with 357 sig barrel yet

Thanks in advance!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
So I bought my 229 Elite Red Box last month. It had some feed problems with certain ammo brands, and the pistol was actually dry looking when first field stripped. Couple of outings, couple of good cleanings, and it's flawless now. My guess the gun was never issued/fired and just sat. It's my EDC now.

Cheers.
 
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