SIG Talk banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,519 Posts
The title is a bit of a misnomer. And must defer to his expertise. But aiming as useless is really not what this is about. Its really about learning to dry fire with good trigger control first and then begin to learn to aim. His method makes more sense.

The theory I was trained with was in reverse: everything was about front sight focus and precision shooting. Learn the sight picture and then dry fire training to learn trigger control while maintaining the sight picture. But to defend precision training from draw, if you learn precision shooting, combat accuracy will fall automatically into place.

Thanks for the video.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,765 Posts
Catchy title, but what he actually means is that aiming is useless if your trigger press disrupts your sight picture before the shot breaks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,471 Posts
The more things change, the more they stay the same. This is exactly what Bill Jordan said in "No Second best winner" several times.

It is all about trigger control. Get that and have your muzzle stable and in the under 15 yards, you never really even need to get your weapon up to your shoulder.

Of course, he had a unlimited ammo supply for years to practice it. Remington and winchester both sent him ammo on request. Same for Scooter.
 

·
🎖USA Veteran Premium Member
Joined
·
9,057 Posts
I used many of the methods that have been described on this forum. At 70 plus I have combined all these theories and have gone with my own hybrid method. I call it "FLACK".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Crusader1949

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,286 Posts
Precision and Combat (shooting) are mutually exclusive, not to be confused as the same thing. Ever... Lol
Yes and no...LOL! I think it would be better said this way. While competition shooting and combat shooting are completely different trains of thought, good marksmanship is always key for measured success.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,133 Posts
Watching people shoot I have noticed many will have the first shot fired center target and then be off on other shots not so much because of trigger squeeze but because of trigger reset ..

They release the trigger before coming back on target and press the following shots off target .. their finger flies back as soon as the gun fires so they are controlling recoil with the last three fingers instead of the whole hand .. they then try to be fast so shoot while the muzzle is still moving ..

People who hold the trigger till target reset before releasing the trigger only to trigger reset will have much tighter groups when shooting rapid fire ..

The proper grip isn't taught new shooters enough either .. and finding a pistol that fits your hand will give you a much better shooting experience !!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
487 Posts
good video thx for sharing.

Watching people shoot I have noticed many will have the first shot fired center target and then be off on other shots not so much because of trigger squeeze but because of trigger reset ..

They release the trigger before coming back on target and press the following shots off target .. their finger flies back as soon as the gun fires so they are controlling recoil with the last three fingers instead of the whole hand .. they then try to be fast so shoot while the muzzle is still moving ..

People who hold the trigger till target reset before releasing the trigger only to trigger reset will have much tighter groups when shooting rapid fire ..

The proper grip isn't taught new shooters enough either .. and finding a pistol that fits your hand will give you a much better shooting experience !!
You should review your theory here. Start with the human anatomy of the forearm and hand muscles.

To summarize the trigger finger should not be used for grip or recoil management.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,286 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,286 Posts
Watching people shoot I have noticed many will have the first shot fired center target and then be off on other shots not so much because of trigger squeeze but because of trigger reset ..

They release the trigger before coming back on target and press the following shots off target .. their finger flies back as soon as the gun fires so they are controlling recoil with the last three fingers instead of the whole hand .. they then try to be fast so shoot while the muzzle is still moving ..
I'm not tracking, or maybe tracking off just a bit. When I shoot I generally shoot pretty quick, unless I'm working to check the accuracy of my sights, so I am pretty sure I am releasing the trigger almost immediately during this sequence. It is nearly impossible to fully control recoil if you're shooting with one hand, but if you're shooting with both hands, recoil is controlled with both hands, if gripping properly, not just one hand, and certainly not with the trigger finger. With the proper grip and trigger discipline anyone can fire shots rapidly and accurately. The speed of shooting has little to nothing to do with it. It's all a matter of grip and trigger discipline. Travis Haley and Ron Avery demonstrate this very well in some of their videos on trigger discipline, which has more to do with how you press than how you release the trigger. Actually, releasing the trigger really doesn't come into play except to allow you to depress it again. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, but I don't think so. Correct me if I'm wrong.

People who hold the trigger till target reset before releasing the trigger only to trigger reset will have much tighter groups when shooting rapid fire ..
Again, I disagree. This may work well for some, but not all. I never hold my trigger, and I am pretty good at making jagged holes. I think this is subjective to the shooter. Again, how you finish at the end of the pull has far more affect than how or when you release the trigger.

The proper grip isn't taught new shooters enough either .. and finding a pistol that fits your hand will give you a much better shooting experience !!
On this we agree, although a properly taught shooter can make do well with nearly any gun. It's more about the shooter than the gun. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Glad to hear someone make that statement! Since, I'm now 75, my 1st love of guns was the Single Action Western Revolvers. And I was doing ''quick draw/fast draw'', long b4 it was even remotely ''fashionable'', and even longer b4, I know that's poor grammar, bit you get the point, cowboy action shooting was thought of! So I learned, what's called, ''instinctive pointing''. Mind, and, eye hand coordination. And it made me quite good!! And this method has carried me thru my entire life, with other guns, as well as knife and axe, and Tomahawk throwing! Can't do those anymore, but the guns, yes!! And, I used to do the fast draw using full weight, 6 1/2'' and 7 1/2'' barreled Rugers. Not these lightened and ''tuned'' single actions of 2day. And, using Bianchi Western style gun belt rigs. Again, not he canted, and highly sophisticated ones of 2day! They looked exactly like the one James Arness used in the longest running Western TV series, called Gunsmoke, for those of you old enough to remember it. Folks who carry 2day, need to find an instructor, or learn on your own, as to how to do ''instinctive pointing''. Of course those of you fortunate enough to be able to shoot outdoors, are the lucky ones. 'Cause most, if not all, indoor ranges will not let you draw and fire from a holster, unless, maybe, as here in money hungry, money grabbing, South Florida, you take one of their outrageously priced ''courses''!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,798 Posts
As you get older and your eyes fade you'll wish you learned how to point shoot long ago.
Not many if any SD situations will allow time for you to raise your gun and look for the front sight to press it onto the target.
Are we training ourselves to punch nice little groups at the range off a static X?
Or are we training ourselves to survive a deadly encounter with somebody who wants to kill us?
I don't remember the last time I really did much 'target shooting' with any of my pistols.
Sure I can punch a small hole in a target at 25yds with one of my 1911s or whatever. But I prefer to practice 1/2,3/4 hip or shoulder point shooting while deflecting left or right.
What you do more of will be what you do or fall back on in an instant 'oh ****' moment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,798 Posts
Glad to hear someone make that statement! Since, I'm now 75, my 1st love of guns was the Single Action Western Revolvers. And I was doing ''quick draw/fast draw'', long b4 it was even remotely ''fashionable'', and even longer b4, I know that's poor grammar, bit you get the point, cowboy action shooting was thought of! So I learned, what's called, ''instinctive pointing''. Mind, and, eye hand coordination. And it made me quite good!! And this method has carried me thru my entire life, with other guns, as well as knife and axe, and Tomahawk throwing! Can't do those anymore, but the guns, yes!! And, I used to do the fast draw using full weight, 6 1/2'' and 7 1/2'' barreled Rugers. Not these lightened and ''tuned'' single actions of 2day. And, using Bianchi Western style gun belt rigs. Again, not he canted, and highly sophisticated ones of 2day! They looked exactly like the one James Arness used in the longest running Western TV series, called Gunsmoke, for those of you old enough to remember it. Folks who carry 2day, need to find an instructor, or learn on your own, as to how to do ''instinctive pointing''. Of course those of you fortunate enough to be able to shoot outdoors, are the lucky ones. 'Cause most, if not all, indoor ranges will not let you draw and fire from a holster, unless, maybe, as here in money hungry, money grabbing, South Florida, you take one of their outrageously priced ''courses''!!
Jasperado please join us out at Okeechobee Shooting Sports for some classes.
They are not outrageously priced and very well done.
See here for more info.

https://www.floridafirearmstraining.com/#2620
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top