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How do you handle a busybody or store security?

  • Ignore the questioner and carry on.

    Votes: 106 56.4%
  • Ignore him and leave the store.

    Votes: 40 21.3%
  • Engage him with friendly banter, hoping he'll think you're harmless, get bored, and walk away.

    Votes: 37 19.7%
  • Tell him you're undercover and to move on.

    Votes: 5 2.7%

Accosted under suspicion of carrying

14082 Views 190 Replies 86 Participants Last post by  Robert70
I found this story online. Wondering who among us may have had experiences like this (edited below), and how you handled it ...

[The original writer has] been stopped at schools, and a few businesses and asked if I have a gun in [a belt pouch]. Everytime I get stopped it is recognized as an "AMMO Pouch". "Is that an ammo pouch"? I used to be happy to say yes. At a school I was told to leave and remove it before I was allowed in. ... I need my meds .... They, for some reason, think that because they recognize it as an ammo pouch that is magically turns into a holster and they become stupid as a result. ... At the schools I consent to search, since it is their right to ask and I need to do my job ... [While shopping at] a ****, what I thought was another shopper stopped me and asked me in a friendly manner if what I had there was an ammo pouch. I was excited to share what essentially I'm using as a man's purse. He then changed his tone, after I pulled out my phone to show him how big the pocket was. I placed my whole hand in the pouch and retrieved the phone. He took a defensive sideways stance and asked, "is there a gun in there?" Still thinking it was another shopper I said, "there might be." He asked to see it and I said I wasn't going to pull a gun out in the store. He then asked me to leave the store and it was then revealed he was a plain clothed security guy who normally deals with shoplifters. The police were not called or anything but I have a rule. NEVER say you don't have a gun unless it is a perjury offence. This tactic becomes dicey on the new medical forms, they don't care about my pool as a threat to my children but they ask me about my guns every time. Do you have any guns? Yes. Do you lock them up and keep the ammo separate from the gun? No. After the hair pulling and the gnashing of teeth where this non medical line of questioning comes from, I inform them that they need a better question. I might just be locking up the ammo, or locking them up together, unloaded. The only way they are going to know is to try a little home invasion.

So, how do you handle a busybody or store security? Take the poll ...
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I have some similar questions and kinda wish you would start a separate thread since there a quite a few differences between a church and a business.

Anyway, we changed churches 6?weeks ago. Non Catholic, non denominational. In New Mexico. Our old church did not have an armed security team and I carried under an untucked Hawaiian shirt, with jeans. If you knew me you could probably tell I was a little wider than normal. No one ever said anything or asked. Went there a year. Smaller church. Technically, illegal as I don’t have a CCW New Mexico permission slip, so a misdemeanor.

We went to a new attendee class and I asked the pastor and the new church DOES have an armed security team of members. I don’t know who as we hardly know anyone. This church has three services. I have not carried yet in the new church. So, he asked if I wanted to be part of the security team and I said not at this time. I’m sure you would need a license. I’d require it for that. I won’t open carry in a church service. If I carry, I’d like them to at least know that somehow so I don’t get shot being mistaken for a bad guy. I’m guessing they might ask to see my license, which I refuse to get. I’m kinda inclined to just not carry until we get a little better recognized and maybe not even then. At 64 and my training severely reduced for several reasons I’m not sure I even want to be on a team, but vid still like to carry. So, a bit of a conundrum for me as well.

Maybe I should just breakdown and get the license. It’s the principle of the thing. After carrying since 2008 the idea of a 16 hour class over two days strikes me as totally crazy. The money is not really an issue, tho I don’t like to waste it.
I feel a little better not carrying knowing have armed security, and If did carry I’d probably just not be the first to respond unless I was directly being impacted. Again, I don’t want to respond and then get shot by the security team since they don’t know me. Kinda don’t much like any of my options.
God forbid you ever have to use it, but juries love a license if you ever do. I don't like it either, particularly after the FBI has been trying to poke around in state's license records, but I'm out to protect me and my family. A jury could be standing in the way of that if I don't maintain the things that tend to sway them. I say get the license. Insurance too while you are at it.
 

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...In fact you can concealed carry in places that sell beer/wine for consumption on premises...
Just another wrinkle on that - those places are licensed by the NM Alcohol and Gaming Division. By law, they must post one of 3 firearm-related signs:

1) No Firearms Allowed
2) No Firearms EXCEPT Concealed Carry
3) No Firearms by Election of Landowner

By the way, I've never seen a #3, nor can I think of any specific circumstance where it would be posted. Most places post the #1 or #2.

So, even if they sell beer and wine for consumption on premises, they could also ban any firearms if they post a #1, including permitted concealed carry.
 

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I would not comply with either scenario! Being asked to check my bags is one thing, although I would be mildly insulted, check the contents to the receipt or whatever you have to do, that's where it ends! As far as any form of body search, or pat down, no can do buddy! If you're that bothered by it I'll wait by the front door while you call whoever you need to call. If you try to put hands on me or take me into custody, game on emffr!
I agree. Ricky Recruit does not have the authority to conduct a search. if they said something about shoplifting, I would say call a real policeman, then stand by for the lawsuit.
If it came to a LEO responding I would ask him /her to speak to them privately, explain I was CCW (legally). if the LEO wanted to conduct a search, i would let him/her.

I doubt i would ever happen here, though because I was at the store, and I was stopped by a young lady who identified herself as a police officer. she was very nice and said when i bent over I was printing,. we discussed it a bit and she suggested moveoing my weapon from 4 to 5 oclock to reduce the print when i bent over.

I ahve also been approached when iw as mowing my lawn. there had been a couple of seniors accosted in the neighborhood, so i was open carrying. The officer asked i cover it with a shirt, since open carry is not allowed even on your own property. again, a civil conversation, he asked me about wheat I was carrying (He is a sig guy too), and it was done. the moral of both stories, be civil, be polite, be firm. don't be a dick (at least to a LEO)
 

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Discussion Starter · #146 ·
I agree. Ricky Recruit does not have the authority to conduct a search. if they said something about shoplifting, I would say call a real policeman, then stand by for the lawsuit.
If it came to a LEO responding I would ask him /her to speak to them privately, explain I was CCW (legally). if the LEO wanted to conduct a search, i would let him/her.

I doubt i would ever happen here, though because I was at the store, and I was stopped by a young lady who identified herself as a police officer. she was very nice and said when i bent over I was printing,. we discussed it a bit and she suggested moveoing my weapon from 4 to 5 oclock to reduce the print when i bent over.

I ahve also been approached when iw as mowing my lawn. there had been a couple of seniors accosted in the neighborhood, so i was open carrying. The officer asked i cover it with a shirt, since open carry is not allowed even on your own property. again, a civil conversation, he asked me about wheat I was carrying (He is a sig guy too), and it was done. the moral of both stories, be civil, be polite, be firm. don't be a dick (at least to a LEO)
Thanks for these two great stories whose lessons can help us all.
 

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I agree. Ricky Recruit does not have the authority to conduct a search. if they said something about shoplifting, I would say call a real policeman, then stand by for the lawsuit.
If it came to a LEO responding I would ask him /her to speak to them privately, explain I was CCW (legally). if the LEO wanted to conduct a search, i would let him/her.

I doubt i would ever happen here, though because I was at the store, and I was stopped by a young lady who identified herself as a police officer. she was very nice and said when i bent over I was printing,. we discussed it a bit and she suggested moveoing my weapon from 4 to 5 oclock to reduce the print when i bent over.

I ahve also been approached when iw as mowing my lawn. there had been a couple of seniors accosted in the neighborhood, so i was open carrying. The officer asked i cover it with a shirt, since open carry is not allowed even on your own property. again, a civil conversation, he asked me about wheat I was carrying (He is a sig guy too), and it was done. the moral of both stories, be civil, be polite, be firm. don't be a dick (at least to a LEO)
I wouldn’t dedicate my time to waiting for LE to arrive on scene. Most I’d do is to declare to the employee that I hadn’t stolen anything and offer for them to follow me to my vehicle to notate my license plate. I might also show a receipt and bag contents. If they have strong enough video evidence to pursue a theft charge, they (LE) will know how to find me.
 

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Again that is not always the case. Citizens arrest laws come into effect and they is generally the mechanism for detaining shoplifters. So you are wrong at least in a large number of states. A private citizen can detain you for a crime they witness you committ in their presence and hold you until police arrive.
Oh? So you’re saying that suspicion of carrying a gun is witnessing you commit a crime in their presence and justifies citizen’s arrest? Nonsense.
 

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If some citizen ever tried to detain me over what they feel as a crime I may or may not have committed I guarantee you will be calling an ambulance before they ever call the police! 🇺🇸 ;)
You can also be charged with resisting arrest and assault for what you are suggesting. As for them being in an ambulance maybe but there is always someone tougher than you no matter who you are.
 

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You can also be charged with resisting arrest. As for them being in an ambulance maybe but there is always someone tougher than you no matter who you are.
I've lost almost exactly half the fights I've been in! That doesn't stop me from defending myself, ambulances do not discriminate. And a badge does not make you immune from the Constitution! I'm sure you have some wonderful adventures and stories! So do I! But guess what, I'm still standing after 60 years, with all my rights intact, there's a few officers out there that will never work again because of misguided interpretations of probable cause, not understanding the Fourth Amendment, or the Fifth Amendment or the Second Amendment! God bless you and be safe! ;)
 

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We are losing our rights because we are not exercising them. People don't seem to know their constitutional rights, but if you're in a private place it's best to get out and avoid getting into trouble (like trespassing). Rule number one is to videotape as soon as possible, rule number two is always try to de-escalate the situation.
 

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I haven’t yet encountered a situation where I have been knowingly made. I would like to think my response to the above store worker would be to carry on as if nothing was said.

Then, if the situation escalates, call the local police to resolve. I think if you are carrying concealed with a permit, “conceal” the gun, without a pouch or fanny pack. No sense in drawing unwanted attention to store employees, or anyone else.
 

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My response to medical people who've asked about my ownership of firearms is, "That question has nothing to do with the reason I'm here, and I will not dignify it with an answer." In respones I received a frown and nothing else. As for concealed carry, I always either carry IWB, appendix position for my P365, or with a Sneaky Pete for larger pistols, i.e., P320C, or P229. Never been asked by anyone if I was carrying, but in my state, you're not in violation of law for carrying in public places, (except fed bldgs, courthouses, and ortherwise restricted areas). If in a Costco, Walmart, or other private business, you may carry concealed or open. However, if asked to leave one must comply, or be subjectg to arrest for trespassing. I carry everywhere. I was stopped by a deputy for driving 10 miles over the limit. I kept my hands on the wheel and told the officer I was carrying, and how would he like me to proceed. He responded, "Don't show me yours, and I won't show you mine."
Exactly like it happened to me. I was stopped by a County Police Officer for speeding zone using Vascar. The officer realized it was the other guy’s fault. I pull over when I saw his lights . The other guy pulled a right on a Side road.The Officer asked for my license and registration. I gave him the registration and told him my license and CCW permit was in my trunk and was I O.K. to get them. He followed me to the trunk of my car and said “ I won’t pull mine if you don’t pull yours.” Since it wasn’t my fault, he let me off with out any problems. Honest truth, Pymatuning Twp. Pa.
 

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I don’t care what the law says, it’s wise to advise the officer of your situation. It’s about courtesy not a law. Like saying please and thank you to people. Not required by law but makes the world a better place. The officer’s side of things can work the same way. One of the first things my FTO instilled in me was to understand the difference between the “letter of the law” versus “the spirit of the law”.
 

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Florida business owners also have a right to refuse service. You were not there on official business and your actions were criminal. You were lucky You should have been held accountable for your actions. But were not. That type of conduct is a disgrace to the badge and should not be tolerated. It doesn’t matter what you think the business owners policy should be. That is their decision and their right. The previous generation has given modern police a bad name and the image we are fighting against today. We are public servants not an entitled class of government employees.
Businesses that refuse service to LE, on duty or off, can be and are sued. Owners often fire the employees that refuse said service. Corporate headquarters are left issuing apologies where they publicly announce their support for the police.

I must say that your strange posts in this thread are giving me misgivings about ever visiting Alaska.
 

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Alaskapopo- You have made some very strange remarks here beginning with your citizens arrest comments and claiming a civilian has the right to detain another citizen on suspicion of a crime. Two men in Georgia are spending the rest of their life in prison because they thought the same. If I am legally carrying and some numb skull attempts to detain me, when the police arrive they will be looking at charges. And if I am so inclined they will be looking at a lawsuit that they will lose. If I am legally carrying and the business attempts to detain me, the exact same scenario holds. They have zero authority to detain me and any business that attempts to do that will be in hot water.

Businesses have been successfully sued for refusing service or entry to LE. It is no different than refusing service or entry based on race or gender or sexual orientation or religion. You can't do that.

I was being fascitious about visiting Alaska, as I am sure the vast majority of Alaskans disagree with you.
 

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Alaskapopo- You have made some very strange remarks here beginning with your citizens arrest comments and claiming a civilian has the right to detain another citizen on suspicion of a crime. Two men in Georgia are spending the rest of their life in prison because they thought the same. If I am legally carrying and some numb skull attempts to detain me, when the police arrive they will be looking at charges. And if I am so inclined they will be looking at a lawsuit that they will lose. If I am legally carrying and the business attempts to detain me, the exact same scenario holds. They have zero authority to detain me and any business that attempts to do that will be in hot water.

Businesses have been successfully sued for refusing service or entry to LE. It is no different than refusing service or entry based on race or gender or sexual orientation or religion. You can't do that.

I was being fascitious about visiting Alaska, as I am sure the vast majority of Alaskans disagree with you.
Being an Leo is not a protected class so it is different. It is illegal for a business to refuse service based on race gender religion and sexual orientation. But a profession is not a protected class. It’s not about agreeing or disagreeing. It’s about what the law states. I don’t support business that would bar officers entry or ccw holders entry. But my opinion doesn’t change the law. I also support property rights something you don’t seem to support. If a buisness owner chooses to bar you entry while you are carrying and you refuse to leave you will be arrested for criminal trespass at the very least. If you hurt them while they are using reasonable force to remove you or detain you for the police you can be charged with assault as well. You can’t just do what ever you want on someone else’s property.
 

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Tell me why everything else is a protected class? Color Race religion homosexuality drag queens Etc, but normal Americans with normal values carrying legal firearms with a legal permit are different! I am absolutely constitutionally protected under the Second Amendment! If somebody tries to throw me out of their store for carrying a gun that's discrimination. Just the same as if I was black gay transgender or whatever! The sign that says we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone means nothing! That can be used to discriminate for any reason the proprietor chooses, so if that doesn't apply to black gay drag queen transgender Etc then it does not apply to me either! Let It Go man!
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