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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
A "gun smith" jammed a drill down the barrel of my west german p228. Advice?

So this gun seems to have a dark cloud over it. I got a basically nib west german p228 with 3 matching serials a long time ago. It's the nicest pistol i've ever fired and it's served me very well and i take meticulous care of it.

Long story short, it just spent 2 months at robar getting np3+ plated after an idiot friend of mine while borrowing it put it down in some caustic liquid that was strong enough to strip the finish completely off part of the muzzle and the cerakote she paid for as a compromise to fixing the damage flaked off after 4 trips to the range because the guy that coated it was utterly incompetent. Now that i live in texas and JUST got my carry license, i wanted to not have bare carbon steel exposed to the salt and humidity here and from carrying.

Robar of course did a phenomenal job. They are the only gun smiths i've ever dealt with that didn't completely screw up the job AND the gun (gouges and scratches generally), i can't recommend them more.

I've had it back for barely a week, my second trip to the range my powder hopper appears to have glitched and a round didn't get charged resulting in a squib which i of course caught because the sound of it was obvious, i didn't fire another round after it.

I ask the gun smith/range master there if he's got a brass rod and mallet so i could tap it out. He tells me to give him the gun and he'll remove the squib. I hand him the gun and he pulls out a power drill with a large bit. I ask him *** are you doing. He says he's a certified gun smith and he's done this to 1000's of guns and never damaged one. The other range masters chime in and say if you drill into a squib, it contracts and just falls out. So i let him do it.

He....very sloppily jams this drill down the barrel, drills a hole in the slug THEN takes a rod and taps it out. He hands me the slug and there's a hole at a diagonal angle all the way through it, i mention this and he says that was just from the rod punching through it. He hands me back the barrel and tells me it's fine but filthy. I look through it and it's got 200 rounds of fouling in it, unburnt powder and a bunch of lead shavings, i couldn't see anything even if it was there.

Sure enough, after i put it back together, i'm having trouble hitting the 6" plates at 30 yards, which i can usually hit easily. At the time i just told myself it was shooters fatigue, or that since i was without my p228 for 2 months i gotta get used to the platform again (only had my glocks for the 2 months).

Of course i get home and clean it and there's a gouge going all the way across one rifling with drill swirl marks all around it, it's so deep if i slide a plastic pick over it it gets stuck in the gouge, it's about 3/4 of an inch past the chamber, exactly where the squib was. The depth of the gouge is pretty close the he height of the lan from what i can tell.

I"ll spare you the details of the insane encounter when i went back to show him the damage and figure out what, if anything he's gonna do about it but it involved accusing me of going home and drilling it myself so i could blame him and scam them for a barrel, making sure i'm abundantly clear that i'm talking to somebody who "has shot guns at people" and basically a 25 minute screaming match where he tried to intimidate the hell out of me, which i didn't let him do.

So according to him, the gun is on it's way to sig where it will be inspected and if they determine "the damage is only cosmetic and does not affect accuracy." he says he's not going to do jack about it. If they say it's damaged, he says they will get me a new barrel and pay for another np3+ plating on it. Given the insane hostility he had, i got a feeling he already knows he's not going to do anything about it.

I guess my question to you guys is if sig says the barrel is functionally fine, would you walk away from this or would you escalate it? I haven't talked to this guys boss, he seems to want to keep it between us.

Can a barrel even have that kind of damage and be functionally the same as it was before it? I don't know because i've NEVER JAMMED A DRILL INTO ONE OF MY GUNS BEFORE.

Have any of you heard of removing a squib with a power drill?! Because nobody i know has.
 

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Just because I tell you I'm a rocket scientist, that doesn't make me a rocket scientist. Obviously, he's not a very competent gunsmith, even though he told you he was.

He definitely owes you a replacement barrel for his F-up. That was stupid of him to do that. Maybe it has worked in the past. But to free hand drill into a barrel is really stupid, and asking for a bad result. What really sucks is your triple serial number gun has a serial on the barrel. The new barrel will NOT. More than likely the new barrel will have a different finish than the factory bluing.

Honestly,I would have never let anyone do that to one of my guns. Your Spidey senses were going off but you didn't make enough of a stink and tell him to stop. I sure hope he makes it right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Which is one of the reasons I carry my own range rod when I go to the range.

One of mine is an 8" brass toilet bowl float rod, $2.77 at Home Depot. You can't go wrong.
Well it's something i've had to deal with so infrequently i never bothered to get one. I've loaded probably 30k rounds of 9mm at this point now and this was my 3rd squib, the first two happened within the first month of when i started loading.

I will definitely start packing my gun smithing hammer and pick up a brass rod after this.

I will also never let another person's hands near this gun because every time somebody touches it they **** it up somehow.

I'm looking for advice though. If you were in my shoes how would you proceed with this?
 

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SIG might be able to fix the rifling so that a new barrel isn't needed. I don't know anything about how that stuff works. Otherwise, a new barrel is your only option. Since you've refinished your gun, it doesn't really matter what the finish on the new barrel is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Just because I tell you I'm a rocket scientist, that doesn't make me a rocket scientist. Obviously, he's not a very competent gunsmith, even though he told you he was.

He definitely owes you a replacement barrel for his F-up. That was stupid of him to do that. Maybe it has worked in the past. But to free hand drill into a barrel is really stupid, and asking for a bad result. What really sucks is your triple serial number gun has a serial on the barrel. The new barrel will NOT. More than likely the new barrel will have a different finish than the factory bluing.

Honestly,I would have never let anyone do that go one of my guns. Your Spidey senses were going off but you didn't make enough of a stink and tell him to stop. I sure hope he makes it right.
Yup, any bit of value the gun had for being a somewhat rare gun in it's condition after the original finish was removed is now gone. Either from the messed up bore or losing that 3rd serial. I"m unconcerned about the finish because when i get a new barrel it's going straight back to the people at Robar for the np3+ treatment.

And Thank you for your input. I'm a laid back guy and i generally like to just let bygones be bygones but this has made me seriously angry, but i'm also a little OCD about my guns, i keep them SPOTLESS despite the heavy use and meticulously maintained and that clouds my judgement.

And yes, my spidey senses were off the charts. But they actually slightly mocked me for being hesitent to do it, and this would have been my first real function test of it after Robar (who might be rocket scientists lol) plated it, and i was excited to see how well it performed, so i let him do it. I wanted to shoot, and from what i could tell my options were to let him continue with the drilling, or go home without a proper function test of my new gun which is my main carry gun (I got my LTC in the mail finally the same week I got the p228 back from robar.)

At one point when we were screaming at each other he basically said it was my fault for letting him talk me into using the drill :|
 

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My opinion is it will shoot fine with the damage being so far back toward the chamber. Now resale value just went down as nobody will want it with that damage. I have an AK that a drill bit used to drill out the gas hole went through to far and chewed some rifling up and it shoots just fine.
 

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At one point when we were screaming at each other he basically said it was my fault for letting him talk me into using the drill :|
"Members of the jury, my client is innocent of robbery because the so-called victims handed over their wallets without a fight. My client asked, and they handed it over"

How do you think that would work out in court? Not very well. The gunsmith was the so-called expert, and you reluctantly complied. He screwed it up. Now it's time to make it right.
 

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I hate to tell you, but in my opinion two-tone guns look better with black barrels. Other than the serial number being absent, I think it may look better with the new barrel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You handled talking with someone like that better than I would have. Tough guy man shooter would have been picking his teeth up off the ground with a bunch of broken fingers.
He pushed me hard, i pushed right back. I didn't stoop to his level with the **** talking and insults however. He trashed my home state, trashed me, trashed the np3+ finish (called it **** lol), trashed my reloading (I load 9mm that gets 7" groups at 100 yards out of a glock 17), accused me of being a scammer, made vague threats of violence as previously mentioned.

While I pride myself on generally taking the high road, it still makes you feel walked all over when you don't stoop to their level.

I just had to repeatedly remind him that this has nothing to do with JAMMING A DRILL DOWN THE BARREL OF MY INVESTMENT GRADE FIREARM.

THe most amusing part though was when he got some 9mm off the shelf and shot a very unimpressive group (3 or 4 inches) at what looked like about 6 and a half yards (he claims it was 8 and a half yards), then shot shot at some extremely large plates at 30 yards, missing over 1/3rd of his shots and saying "See it's fine.".

THen says when sig sends it back and says it's just fine, he expects an apology from me, which I told him he's not going to get.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
I hate to tell you, but in my opinion two-tone guns look better with black barrels. Other than the serial number being absent, I think it may look better with the new barrel.
I actually agree, but honestly i just wanted to fix the previous persons damage to the finish, and the norton special was the best deal and it included the barrel.

So far i'm so impressed with the np3+ I plan to have the frame done in the future. I love this gun and i want to keep it around for a long time and man, that np3+ seems to reduce friction to almost nothing.

Having the internals and trigger components done did wonders for the double and single action pulls, probably pulling one and 2 pounds off them respectively.

My opinion is it will shoot fine with the damage being so far back toward the chamber. Now resale value just went down as nobody will want it with that damage. I have an AK that a drill bit used to drill out the gas hole went through to far and chewed some rifling up and it shoots just fine.
This might well be true but my question is, there's obvious and pronounced damage to the bore of my pistol because somebody did something totally idiotic to it, an employee at a facility i pay money to use. Is it justified that he should replace it and the finish I JUST had put on it? Or is that unreasonable. I genuinely am not 100% sure i'm not being unreasonable, but i'm pretty sure i'm not.

I know if i let a "certified rug expert" try to fix a corner that got loose on my carpet by throwing grape juice at it, i wouldn't be content with him saying "Well the carpet is still soft when you walk on it. It's fine.".
 

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Respectfully, 3 lessons to be learned here-
1) Don't lend a gun to anyone.
2) Don't let someone you aren't familiar with, or at least know that they are responsible, work on your gun.
3) Don't let the range who screwed it up handle sending it back to Sig. I would not have let them put their hands on it. Even if it meant eating the cost of the barrel, they wouldn't touch my gun, again.

Sorry this happened to you. I'd be upset, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Sorry about your pistol.

Gunsmiths are worse than weathermen. Weathermen don't destroy as much stuff and you don't have to pay them to lie to you!
I've had 6 gun smiths now touch my pistols.

1. Paid a gun smith to detail clean my p228 when i bought it. He field stripped it, threw all the parts in a cardboard box and slammed them into a drawer banging them all together. I get it back with no less then 6 or 7 scratches on the untouched finish AND he didn't even do anything but a field strip clean. I didn't pay him and he threatened to kill me.

2. Paid a gun smith to drive a new firing pin positioning pin into my sp2340 as it was REALLY tight, he put 3 gouges into the slide and about 3 or 4 scratches. He covered them up with a sharpie and like the previous guy said "Whatever, it'll still shoot.".

3. Paid a guy to drift the rear sight on my p228, he put a gouge in the slide, it turns out he was lying to me when he said he had a sig sight pusher and was just banging on it with a steel punch. He didn't even get it sighted in and I had to meet up with a guy online with a sight pusher and do it myself.

4. Paid a gun smith to cerakote the slide on my p228, he oversprayed the hell out of it and did shoddy prep work, it flaked off after 4 range trips. He offered to redo it but no refund knowing i was moving to texas long before he said he could get around to it.

5. Sent it to Robar. A++++++++++++++ work. Worth every penny.

6. A maniac took a drill to my p228 to remove a squib at lonestar gun range in texas.
 

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Well it's something i've had to deal with so infrequently i never bothered to get one. I've loaded probably 30k rounds of 9mm at this point now and this was my 3rd squib, the first two happened within the first month of when i started loading.

I will definitely start packing my gun smithing hammer and pick up a brass rod after this.

I'm looking for advice though. If you were in my shoes how would you proceed with this?
I've loaded and shot around 20K of ammunition every year since I was a kid and I've never had a squib. I still carry a squib rod. I seem to loan it out a lot and the last time was last Thursday.

I'd take the idiot who screwed up your barrel to small claims court if you want satisfaction. If it's money you're thinking about you're better off biting the bullet and buying a new barrel, then chalking the whole thing up to experience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Respectfully, 3 lessons to be learned here-
1) Don't lend a gun to anyone.
2) Don't let someone you aren't familiar with, or at least know that they are responsible, work on your gun.
3) Don't let the range who screwed it up handle sending it back to Sig. I would not have let them put their hands on it. Even if it meant eating the cost of the barrel, they wouldn't touch my gun, again.

Sorry this happened to you. I'd be upset, too.
Life is a never ending series of learning from your mistakes. You make mistakes and learn from them one at a time. I just learned a new one.

I let him send it to sig because at least then there would be SOME documentation of this, as the form we both signed off on acknowledges that he took a drill to it, plus he swears depending on what they say he'll pay for the new barrel and np3+. If he doesn't, i'm escalating it to his boss. After this, nobody touches that gun but me and a close friend who's standing right next to me at a range. I think it's cursed.

His tone DRASTICALLY changed near the end of my visit and we shook hands. He KNOWS what he did. I get the feeling though he's just a hot headed guy and he takes this as an attack on his skills as a "gun smith". It's entirely possible he has done this 1000 times as he claimed and not hurt a gun.

I'm an artist, i've drawn thousands of hands. I still accidentally drew the thumb on the wrong side of the hand of a person's commission piece once and it sat on their wall for months before somebody noticed. **** happens. But, when they pointed it out, i paid to have it shipped back, fixed it, apologized and we all had a good laugh over it. This is the approach i expected him to take over what he did to my gun.

I've loaded and shot around 20K of ammunition every year since I was a kid and I've never had a squib. I still carry a squib rod. I seem to loan it out a lot and the last time was last Thursday.

I'd take the idiot who screwed up your barrel to small claims court if you want satisfaction. If it's money you're thinking about you're better off biting the bullet and buying a new barrel, then chalking the whole thing up to experience.
I load on a lee 4 hole turret. The first two squibs were just because i was still getting the flow of loading down and i most likely short stroked it as i was JUST learning. Lately, my powder hop on rare occasions doesn't reset fully and i gotta push it forward with my hand otherwise it doesn't drop the full charge into the disc, i'ts probably gummed up with powder. It stopped doing it though so i didn't bother to take it apart. I've seen probably 3 or 4 dozen squibs at ranges (two exploding guns as a result) over the years, all but one were from factory ammo.

You would be the first reloader i've ever met that doesn't get the extremely rare occasional squib. Either way, even if i'm the worst reloader on the planet, the fact i loaded a squib doesn't make it ok to do what he did which was pretty much what he was implying.

Small claims court would cost me 3x more than the cost of a new barrel and np3+ treatment in paper work filings and lost work hours. If he doesn't do something, i go to his boss. if the boss doesn't do something i.....write a bad yelp review lol, and spend my aimpoint pro money on a new barrel and trip to robar :\
 

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baserock, On it's face, a couple of mistakes,i.e. letting him run a drill of any kind into the barrel, then letting him have the gun to send it to SIG after he has already demonstrated that he is an idiot. I would not have let him touch the gun for any reason. I wish you luck sir, but I suspect he is not going to pay for a new barrel no matter what. Rifling cannot be repaired. What's done is done. Will the gun still go Bang? Sure. But will that barrel ever be right? NO way, NO how. I would have had nothing further to do with that individual and just purchased a new barrel myself.......ymmv

Thing is, there is no training, knowledge, experience or certification requirement of any kind for anyone to call themselves a gunsmith. Equivalent to somebody shoving a red shop towel in their back pocket and calling themselves a mechanic.......

PS, I always carry a range rod.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
baserock, On it's face, a couple of mistakes,i.e. letting him run a drill of any kind into the barrel, then letting him have the gun to send it to SIG after he has already demonstrated that he is an idiot. I would not have let him touch the gun for any reason. I wish you luck sir, but I suspect he is not going to pay for a new barrel no matter what. Rifling cannot be repaired. What's done is done. Will the gun still go Bang? Sure. But will that barrel ever be right? NO way, NO how. I would have had nothing further to do with that individual and just purchased a new barrel myself.......ymmv

Thing is, there is no training, knowledge, experience or certification requirement of any kind for anyone to call themselves a gunsmith. Equivalent to somebody shoving a red shop towel in their back pocket and calling themselves a mechanic.......

PS, I always carry a range rod.
Well i should know on thursday whether this guys gonna screw me. And the deal isn't for a repair, he agreed to a replacement barrel.

And it's not really just me dealing with a guy, this is now being done through the business he works for. At least letting him send it off gives me proof it actually frickin happened. I tried to find hte slug in the trash but was unable to. The paper work on the tag has him saying he used a drill.

I got no power here, and funds are tight, i just dropped 350 bucks on the np3+ finish and another grand on a colt 6920. This is my only shot at getting my p228 back to optimal condition without dropping another 300 on a barrel and np3+ treatment.

Throw on top of that the fact i unexpectedly have to move and just started my own business, this is the only shot i got at getting this resolved anytime soon.
 
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