[Alwayscarryinil]

I love most items from lehigh. If its my 9 i carry 105 grain max expansion. If its my 357sig its the extreme defense round. Ive been reading more on the 70 grain max expansion hero round. It states 1600fps and from videos ive seen it comes in not much lower around 1550 to 1570. It dumps all energy and only penetrates 9 to 10 inches. Do you feel that is more then enough. Ive always looked for 12 to 16 inches as bone along eith other factors drops that number over 4 layers and gel block. I ordered a box today. Once weather breaks and i can get some gel block shots i plan to test side by side with my current carry. I guess im wondering how others feel about that 10 inch number. Heres what i think is a good video on gel test
https://youtu.be/qTW0z68CBlc

 

[USMC6872]

Any tactical situation is a challenge and every bullet is a compromise. The 4 + Gel Block is the FBI Standard for point displacement against a attacker, and as such is a good comparison for 90% of the shooting incidents you may encounter as a Non LEO or Military.

But for their purposes, other things have to be measured. Barrier penetration Plus displacement of energy into a body is critical for LEO work. (Which is why the Speer 125 is so popular with LEO for the 357 SIG)

I believe in a 12 to 15 inch penetration Ala the the FBI test standard, and want at least 400 LB of energy. I also believe in the Speer 125 Golden Saber for the SIG 357, and the Remington Golden Saber for the .40 S&W. The Remington S&W round also has the nice advantage of a 100% expansion. (It goes from .40 to .80 Caliber).

Remember. The bigger the hole, the faster your target will bleed out and stop moving.

Big Ugly lead objects (Like the .58 Caliber lead bullet of the Civil war) put the top to most people.

 

[dwg13013]

I think for the average guy, most major HPs will get the job done.

Important to me is the amount of flash in a dark situation. I had hoped the video would show a dark shot.
I have seen some that just blind me. Double tap is real flashy. Fun to shoot, but I would never consider it for carry.
Considering the FPS of this, that would be my first check out.

 

[USMC6872]

Darryl, you are right.
Gold Dot is Speer, Golden Saber is Remington.

Both are "Golden" in performance history from real world results.

 

[GCBHM]

Actually, bleeding out isn't going to change much... the difference of fractions of an inch as far as "hole to bleed out through" isn't, speaking from a fluid dynamics perspective, going to make much of a difference.

Trauma that stops the heart (and hence, no more blood flow) will strongly suggest to a perp that it's game-over.. As will internal bleeding (ie. less blood flow to the brain) due to intra-thoracic wound cavity and the trauma that causes it.

Yes, there are a number of medical reports documenting the fact that the standard pistol round just does not cause a big enough hole to differentiate a .45ACP from a 9mm. The human skin and organs are very elastic, and it takes exorbitant amounts of energy to cause that kind of difference, like the difference from a 9mm vs a 7.62x51, per se.

Surgeons have said they often have a hard time telling the difference btwn which handgun caliber bullet caused a hole (unless it is the difference btwn a .50 and a 9mm), but they can most definitely tell the difference btwn a pistol, a rifle or shotgun hole. This is primarily why the whole "bigger hole" theory, when it comes to handguns, is bunk. Multiple holes will cause a quicker bleed out, sure, but the difference in a single hole created by a "FORTY FIIIIIIVE" vs a single hole caused by a 9mm isn't going to be much.

 

[DBS]

Yes, there are a number of medical reports documenting the fact that the standard pistol round just does not cause a big enough hole to differentiate a .45ACP from a 9mm. The human skin and organs are very elastic, and it takes exorbitant amounts of energy to cause that kind of difference, like the difference from a 9mm vs a 7.62x51, per se.

Surgeons have said they often have a hard time telling the difference btwn which handgun caliber bullet caused a hole (unless it is the difference btwn a .50 and a 9mm), but they can most definitely tell the difference btwn a pistol, a rifle or shotgun hole. This is primarily why the whole "bigger hole" theory, when it comes to handguns, is bunk. Multiple holes will cause a quicker bleed out, sure, but the difference in a single hole created by a "FORTY FIIIIIIVE" vs a single hole caused by a 9mm isn't going to be much.

The best real-world study on the subject demonstrated that for "stopping power," all the standard handgun duty calibers suck pretty much equally.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

Rifles and shotguns are markedly more effective.

 

[Edsel]

Barrier penetration plus displacement of energy...

...speaking from a fluid dynamics perspective...

...intra - thoracic wound cavity...

The human skin and organs are very elastic, and it takes exorbitant amounts of energy...

:thumbsu:

They be tacticle terms, guys!

 

[GCBHM]

The best real-world study on the subject demonstrated that for "stopping power," all the standard handgun duty calibers suck pretty much equally.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

Rifles and shotguns are markedly more effective.

Yep, I've read that one, and I think it's pretty definitive.